Tuning in the studio?

Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

I've been trying to sort through previous threads on tuning, and unfortunately, the most common thing I find is fighting!

I'll be recording this summer with my pedal steel for the first time (for real, anyway)! If anyone has ans experience in the recording studio, I would really appreciate some tuning tips regarding whether I should tune the steel by ear, or equal temp, etc. The other instrumentation is (besides drums) acoustic guitar and either Wurlitzer electric piano or accordian (which is of course never totally in tune, of course).

Thanks!

richard burton · From: Britain

Tune straight up 440, and make sure that you record your steel after the piano and accordian tracks have been layed down, so that you have a reference.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Tune however you usually tune. Don't change anything or you will be spending time adjusting instead of playing. How you tune only has a little to do with playing in tune anyway.
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David Doggett · Posted 5 Apr 2008 12:49 pm

I'm with Bob H. While some people tune close to straight up ET on gigs and the studio, Paul Franklin has said that most of the top pros take a reference and tune by ear to something close to JI or maybe in between. He said some studios will not allow tuning straight up ET. Jim Cohen said he once did an experiment in the studio playing pedal steel along with a piano. He recorded tuning both straight up ET, and his usual way of tuning closer to JI by ear. The others in the studio agreed he sounded better tuned his usual way.

So if you always tune straight up ET and like your sound that way, stay with it. If you usually tune by ear or a chart, stay with what you are familiar with.

Some people tune closer to JI playing at home alone, but tune closer to ET when they play with others. If you are use to that, it can work also.

I agree with Richard B. that steel should be one of the last tracks laid down. You need to hear the tuning center of the whole group, and the solo instruments and vocals you are backing up.

Another thing to be aware of is that whoever plays loudest is the one who sounds in tune. If you are slightly off with another instrument, when they solo and you back them, you will sound off; but when you solo and they back you, they will sound off. This can lead to surprises on the final mix.

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

Gary Cosden · From: Florida, USA

If you have a copy of "The Acoustical Foundations of Music" by John Backus check out the chart on page 247 showing the actual average state of tune of 16 professionally tuned pianos. The highest and lowest notes vary from ET by more than 30 cents! Even in the mid range notes vary from Et by 3-5 cents. I used to be a big proponent of tuning straight ET but over the years I have mellowed enough to accept something other than mathematical perfection in tuning. Do what you are used to and don't worry about it unless it becomes an issue.The odds are pretty overwhelming that it won't be a problem - at least not because of the way you tune the open strings and pedal changes.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I've recently done a handful of tunes for Muzak, being basically the last Instrument added to tracks where there really was no room for the Steel.

Like Bob says, tune like you normally do, play like you normally do. You may have to tweak a note here and there if you HEAR any conflicts, no big deal.

You'll have a good time, don't worry about it, it's just a few songs played in an enclosed room !

by the way I tune 441 then tweak to my ears.

tp

Jim Prater · From: Watseka, Illinois, USA

I recorded with Robert Austin in 2006 in Mission, TX and I used tempered tuning. Sad

It didn't come out very good. If I had to do it again I would go 440 straight-up. I realize it could have been me, but I feel it was the tunning I used.

Jim Prater, Rains SD-10

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Kyle Everson · From: Nashville, Tennessee

A good exercise is to play along with records with headphones on. I plug my ipod into the back of my Nashville 112 and plug my headphones in the 112's headphone jack. This will reveal any minute tuning ambiguities. You can sound in-tune all day long on the bandstand in open air, but once those phones go on, it can be quite a shock. I would recommend doing this before you go into the studio if you've never recorded before.

FWIW, I tune to the peterson presets and I have had no problems on sessions so far. The last one included a grand piano, a B3 and a Fender Rhodes, and some of my parts were doubles of the keys. As mentioned before, though, record your parts last if possible, especially if you double someone else's part.

David Doggett · Posted 8 Apr 2008 9:48 pm

Okay, Jim. Now I have to quit quoting you on this. If ET with the keyboard worked for you in one situation, and JI in another, I'm thinking you are a good candidate for something in between, say 438 for the 3rds.

There is no right and wrong here, there is only "what works."

I certainly prefer JI (by ear, not a chart) when playing home alone. But one thing I've noticed in recordings, both my own and some Larry Bell posted on here once comparing JI to ET, is that pure JI is so harmonious and mellow the harmony can sound a bit dark, dull and muddy. I can't take straight up ET for steel, but somewhere in between sounds a bit more sparkly and bright.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Oops, I forgot to mention that my experience, described above, applied only to the C6 tuning. With E9, I stayed with JI. Sorry.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

If your in the studio and you have a few minutes to tune before recording each song, you can actually temper your guitar to the key of the song you are playing. If you need to tweak a few things that will assure you good tuning within one key, then that will be fine since you are not going to worry about the next song like you would if you were playing live. That is just a thought.

Most important is to tune to the keyboards that will be used. If they are older vintage electric or an acoustic piano then THAT instrument becomes the tonal center for the recording since whatever they are tuned to is pretty much fixed for the session. Make sure you are in good with these keyboard instruments.

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

I would think someone in the studio would have the last say as to how you should tune your guitar. Unless you are footing the bill, somebody will go up to you and tell you if they feel your tuning is way off.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Nobody will tell a session player how to tune there Instrument. The Engineer may tell you that you are OUT of tune though.

It's up to the player to be IN tune and play the Music.

Antolina · From: Dunkirk NY

Very informative thread guys. Thanks a lot. I'll think about it for a while before I post what I know will be some (dumb?)questions.
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Drew Howard · From: 48854

Steve Alonzo Walker · From: Spartanburg,S.C. USA (deceased)

Always get your guitar in the studio early as you can so it can get adjusted to the room.

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

TP that is what I meant, I did word it funny, I would imagine some one would go up to you and point out that you are out of tune not change your tuning, the problem with this is that in studios there are very high tech equipment that can detect if you are sharp or flat, well all of us like some of our strings and pedals a little sharp or flat, would they expect you to tune straight up? You really have to do what the engineer wants you to do, it is a job after all.

Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Thanks everyone.

I've been messing around tuning by ear at home, and I find that while the 'meat' (major chords) are sweeter for sure, the F#'s are a bit tricky, as is the 2nd string. When I use the Peterson presets, everything is on average a little better...

Another related question: I find that no matter how I tune, my diminished and 7th chords using the F lever are weird, specifically the 5th string is sharp. Any suggestions? I use these LOTS.

For what it's worth, I'm one of two engineers/producers on the album...

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

The Peterson company posted a wealth of information about the mechanics of various tunings. The PDF file which is a reroduction of the owners manual is very informative. There are 2 e9 tunings in the unit, one based on Es at 440, and the other with them at +9 cents. The offsets I assume are the same. Numerous tunings have been used on different instruments throughout history. Strings, vs woodwinds, vs horns, etc. The bottom line with regards to accompanying the usual, piano guitar, fiddle, IMHO wouold be be a combination of the offsets, and the ear. http://www.petersontuners.com/media/pdf/Stroboflip%20Instruction%20Manual%20English.pdf
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Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

Stuart Legg · Posted 9 Apr 2008 7:57 pm

Take a reference pitch from the tracks and tune your usual way to that pitch and use more than normal bar shiver or use a little delay and detune effect and don't stay in one place to long. For pity sakes don't let them talk you into recording with their board chorus.

Jody Sanders · From: Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.

Wonder why Paul gets so many sessions other than being a super player? He is always at the studio ahead of time, always in tune, and whatever the producer wants, that is what Paul plays. Paul once told me that he tune his E's to 442 and the rest by the old ear tweak trick. Jody.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

If I had Paul's ears, that's exactly what I'd do too! Wink

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