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Topic: Tricone fever... |
Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 29 Mar 2008 6:50 am |
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| Edward Meisse wrote: |
I'm saving my pennies for a National Tricone. Meanwhile I'm very sorely tempted to buy the Johnson model. They are so much less pricey......
It's because the tone of the tricones is less strident and more appropriate to the acoustic swing music I prefer to play. I will also tune mine to C6. |
This is from another thread, but I didn't want to drift too far from that thread's original question, so I'm posting as a new thread.
I'm also curious about these Johnson Squarenecks (Johnson JM-991-S) at around $600-700. I'd love to get a vintage National, but don't have the $3000+ for one, and I'd also be taking it to places I'd be very afraid to take a vintage instrument.
Anyone playing one with upgraded parts (or not), and would anyone have a sound clip? If I can at least approach the tricone sound for under a grand, my wallet can handle that, for now, anyway.
Thanks.
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 29 Mar 2008 7:11 am
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The Chinese make an exact replica of the National Tri-Cone under the brand Republic. Even the logo looks almost the same. I doubt if even a National owner could tell the difference with his eyes closed.
It used to be that Oriental copies were cheap rip-offs, but it's getting to the stage where the Oriental instruments are as good as or even better than the originals, especially where such well-known firms such as Guild, Gibson and Fender are outsourcing their production in order to save money. |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Eric Barker
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2008 11:43 am
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I have a Republic squareneck. I bought it because #1 I could afford it and #2 I wanted the tricone experience before committing myself to save for a National. I'm very happy with it and I love the tricone sound, so I guess I'll start saving.
My experience in dealing with Frank at Republic was a good one. |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 29 Mar 2008 11:46 am
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The quality of merchandise being made in China has vastly improved over the past several years.
If you are buying a Republic or Johnson, you may want to upgrade by replacing the cones with National cones. Also I've read that people have removed the middle mushroom from under the neck (inside of the body)which improves the sound.....you can get more info on this at The Acoustic Guitar
Forum.......... |
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Jim Sallis
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2008 2:19 pm
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I play an older Johnson tricone. (Actually two: one squareneck, one round.) Most of us take out the middle "mushroom" support and move the top one to beneath the 18th fret or so; we also replace the nut and saddle. Tremendous difference. Many replace the cones, but my cones are thin, fit well, and sound fine.
Republics are much the same as Johnsons, though generally given a good tweak and set-up by Frank, who is indeed a good guy and a fine person to deal with. |
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Steve Branscom
From:
Pacific NW
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Posted 29 Mar 2008 5:14 pm
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I just bought a Johnson SqNk Tricone from Elderly Music about 3 weeks ago. They called it shopworn so I ended up getting it for $500. I bought National cones, a National bridge, and a new nut from Beard for about $275. The new bridge comes with a maple insert. So I'm into it for just under $800. It's in the shop right now getting the work done. As for "shopworn" I can't find any kind of blemish on it. In my case I'm leaving the "mushrooms" where they're at for the time being.
A friend that bought one recently suggested putting an ad in the local Craig's list and see what kind of response you get.
BTW, Johnson is becoming Recording King as we speak. They are in the process of designing their own dobro's and will be discontinuing the Johnson line so there may be some inventory clearance sales coming up where you might find one at for a reasonable price.
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Steve |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2008 3:57 pm
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I emailed Frank at Republic right after my first visit to this thread. His reply was that I could get a Republic square neck tricone delivered to my address in a hard shell case for $599.00.  Said I could call him on Monday morning. I intend to do so. Given the high praise these guitars have been recieving I just can't pass this up.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 31 Mar 2008 6:07 am Hey guys
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Hey -- thanks to all for the great tips and advice! I may explore one of these asian imports (though, honestly kind of loathe to export any more dollars from the US), and at least the tricone experience to see if it's' something I want to save up for in a vintage National. I'd seriously not mind paying $4 or $5K, if I knew it was something I was really going to want to keep playing as a gigging instrument, and it's a worthy investment, too, in that case.
I'm going to call Frank however, and find out more from him. I like the fact that he does a pro set-up after receiving them.
Thanks again, everyone.
Yee-haw and Aloha,
TJW
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 31 Mar 2008 6:42 am 'shroom mod
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| HowardR wrote: |
The quality of merchandise being made in China has vastly improved over the past several years.
If you are buying a Republic or Johnson, you may want to upgrade by replacing the cones with National cones. Also I've read that people have removed the middle mushroom from under the neck (inside of the body)which improves the sound.....you can get more info on this at The Acoustic Guitar
Forum.......... |
Howard -- is there a site anywhere that demonstrates how to do this mod with accompanying photos? I've been reading about it, but since I've never looked inside one, don't really understand some of the terminology.
Tx,
TJW
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2008 7:08 am
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I just bought this Republic square neck tri-cone off of e-bay. It's coming from Frank in Dallas. Cost me $579 w/case, plus shipping.
It even has engraving top and bottom. 
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2008 8:21 am
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Unfortunately neither National nor Republic are producing the "true" original design square-neck tricones - the ones with the upper bout shoulders gracefully curving into the neck.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
A UkeTone Recording Artist
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Hawaiian Steel Guitar/Ukulele Website |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2008 9:17 am
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I just got off the phone with Frank at Republic guitars. He tells me that in response to the talk about removing the middle mushrooms, his new guitars don't have one.
He also corrected my understanding about the Hard shell case. It is a heavily padded foam case. The way he explained it is that it works kind of in the same way as modern cars add to our safety by folding up in response to a collission. The folding up of the car protects the occupants from the force of the collission by absorbing the shock. The foam case is supposed to work the same way. I'm willing to give it a try. It sounds alot lighter, too. 
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Eric Barker
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2008 9:28 am
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| Edward Meisse wrote: |
I just got off the phone with Frank at Republic guitars. He tells me that in response to the talk about removing the middle mushrooms, his new guitars don't have one.
He also corrected my understanding about the Hard shell case. It is a heavily padded foam case. The way he explained it is that it works kind of in the same way as modern cars add to our safety by folding up in response to a collission. The folding up of the car protects the occupants from the force of the collission by absorbing the shock. The foam case is supposed to work the same way. I'm willing to give it a try. It sounds alot lighter, too. |
Edward,
The case is ok and you're right about the weight, it makes the 8.8# guitar more manageable to carry around. The Republic also has a bone nut and a maple/ebony bridge, so the only other mod would be the cones. I'm pretty happy with the sound of the Continentals but it would be interesting to see what the National hot rods would sound like.
I like the Republic but I'm with Gerald, I still want a German Silver National squareneck. I guess I'll keep practicing and saving. |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2008 10:05 am
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Me too. But at least now I'm going to have a good quality tricone. And I didn't have to take out a second mortgage.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Steve Branscom
From:
Pacific NW
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Posted 31 Mar 2008 10:59 am
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If you are interested in picking up an older National Tricone from the 20's or 30's I would encourage you to read Bob Brozman's book, "The History and Artistry of National Resophonic Instruments". It lists for $35 but I think you can get copies from Amazon for about $25. He talks about all the older models and makes the statement that the newer ones (the ones currently being built) sound better than the older ones. In addition, he made a comment about acquiring a 20's Tricone over a 30's or 40's tricone, better sound. His comments, not mine. Brozman's book is an absolute winner for anyone interested in this area. Food for thought.
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Steve |
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Andrea Bonino
From:
Republic of Ireland
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Posted 1 Apr 2008 6:28 pm
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i thought about buying an Asian squareneck tricone first , but then i knew i would have still be left with the craving for a National so i saved and got one and couldn't be happier. eventually got to play a friend's 1931 squareneck tricone, and compared it with my one playing straight after that.. i must say that my 2005 National Resophonic sounded way better to my ears, a lot more bass response and more 'presence' (if that makes any sense)
the vintage ones do look nicer, but in the end it's the sound that matters to me, and honestly all that engraving looks a bit naff to me.
i still haven't switched to the new 'hot rod' cones, which a lot of people say make a great improvement on the sound, as i said i'm pretty happy the way it is now |
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Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Posted 1 Apr 2008 8:45 pm
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Andrea - great to see you here! 
I too have been tempted by the Republics but I am holding on to my money for the (distant) day when I hopefully will be able to afford a vintage National Tricone. Also, NRP are planning to produce German Silver, hollow-neck Tricones like the originals in the future, but my guess is these would be as pricy as the vintage ones (if not more expensive). Andrea's comment about the sound being the #1 concern is of course right. The day I buy a Tricone, it will be one that I have played and feel satisfied with.
My 2 cents (which are far off the price of any Tricone  ).
Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 1 Apr 2008 8:52 pm
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| Fred Kinbom wrote: |
Also, NRP are planning to produce German Silver, hollow-neck Tricones like the originals
Fred |
I used to think they were hollow also.....but actually....they are.....metal clad...... |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 1 Apr 2008 8:53 pm
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| HowardR wrote: |
| Fred Kinbom wrote: |
Also, NRP are planning to produce German Silver, hollow-neck Tricones like the originals
Fred |
I used to think they were hollow also.....but actually they are.....metal clad...... |
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Colin Brooks
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 2:15 am
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Steve, the comments you ascribe to Bob Brozman, who is a National Resophonic dealer, are on his website, not in his book.
Many 30's tricones are brass and don't sound as good as German silver.
Most old Spanish neck Nationals have had a hard life and have problems with intonation and action.
I think that 20's Hawaiian tricones do sound noticably better than NRP tricones, and that excellent old ones can still be bought for much less than new ones. If the old cones have 'died' they will, of course, need replacing for best sound.
Howard, most 20's tricones have their necks filled with wood to about the 10th fret, but on some it only comes to the 3rd fret. |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 9:45 am
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| Quote: |
| The day I buy a tricone, it will be one that I have played and feel satisfied with. |
Howard had to special order his 8 string. Obviously he couldn't have played it before it was built. I aggree that the ideal situation is to be in a room full of guitars, play each one individually and take your pick of the best sounding of the lot. But that's not always possible, especially if you're talking about a squareneck tricone. I've never been to a dealer where they were not a special order item.
For a long time I wouldn't have touched a Chinese tricone. Besides the political considerations, at which I still wince, they had a reputation in the steel guitar community for being notably inferior to the Nationals.
But now they have gotten a reputation for being comparable. And they cost only 20% as much!! And if I really don't like it, I'll send it back. Do you really think that any of these guitar company owners is going to want their name smeared all over the internet guitar fora as being a piker? I doubt it. If I don't like it, they will take it back.
As I said above, the political implications do still bother me. But I learned long ago that I'm not going to solve the world's problems by myself. If we don't like our trade relationship to China, then we need to elect a government that will do something about it and hold their feet to the fire until they get it done. And that's as far as I will go with that. I don't want to start a political discussion here.
My tricone gets deliverd on Monday.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 9:58 am Yep, me too...
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| Edward Meisse wrote: |
| My tricone gets deliverd on Monday. |
Like you Edward, I don't care much for buying anything the Chinese make either, but at the cost/value ratio of the Republics, I also had to order one to try it out. Hard to even flippin' find a tricone of any brand, let alone NRP, to try out in a store locally (unless one is in a very large metro area like LA, NYC, Chicago, et..).
Mine is supposed to arrive tomorrow, according to UPS. I'm sure I will post a full review my initial observations.
All that said though, I still will have real National someday, if it kills me. I'd like to own both a squareneck tricone and a spanish neck biscuit style for bottleneck playing. I may have to sell a Stringmaster or a frypan to do it, though!
TJW
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 1:52 pm
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Edward, I know what you are saying - over here in England, seeing any lap guitar in a shop is very rare and a cause for celebration! So I have bought all my lap guitars "unseen" - old Oahu acoustics, vintage National electric lap steels and a Dobro on eBay and I custom ordered my Lazy River Weissenborn from the luthier. I have had the opportunity to play two or three vintage Tricones, and they have sounded quite different to each other, at least to my reso-inexpereinced ears. All I meant was that I would be unwilling to spend $3,000 (a LOT of money to me) or more on a vintage National without having played it to make sure it is "for me". On the other hand, one could always sell one on and "try again" if it for some reason isn't to ones liking.
Regarding the Chinese instruments, political (and environmental) concerns are what hold me back. But I just now heard a guy over at the IGS forum who has posted some recordings of his Republic roundneck Tricone (upgraded with NRP "hot rod" cones) and it sounded absolutely beautiful! Difficult. 
Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 6:15 pm
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I've got the fever!
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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