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Topic: Sustain Units? |
Bob Simons
From:
Kansas City, Mo, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2008 5:52 am |
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Sustain Units? Can anyone offer me an opinion on Hilton and Goodrich sustain units? I've never tried one of these devices. Is it likely to really improve the performance of my Zumsteel? Which unit is preferred?
Any help would be appreciated...
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Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 5:02 pm
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I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'll say it anyway...
IMHO, with a good pedal, a good amp, and a good steel, sustain units and compressors simply aren't necessary. |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 5:41 pm
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Well. New strings are the best "sustain unit". Cheaper too.
I usually don't agree with Mr Hinson.
EJL |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 8:51 pm
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Also the smallest amp you can use for the situation, turned up to where it's driving fairly hard will help your sustain. A speaker cone vibrating with "2" on the volume contol is going to drop off pretty quickly IMO.
"Sustain" units are compressors. They raise the level of a note as it's power drops. It also raises the noise, and has an effect on tone.
With the right rig they are quite unecessary...IMO.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2008 10:33 pm
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I use a goodrich steel driver III when I play on my steel king. Mostly I use it as an on board tone control. With my 112 I dont need it at all
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 4:15 am
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Why these devices are called sustain units is beyond me.
They are buffers and/or impedance matchers used before the volume pedal to eliminate the frequency loss caused by the pot.
If you use a Hilton or Goodrich LDR volume pedal you definitely don`t need one. With a passive pedal I guess it`s more a matter of taste.
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Bob Simons
From:
Kansas City, Mo, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 4:38 am
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Thanks for the tips!
I tried out the Hilton unit after posting. While it did prolong notes somewhat, I felt the compressor effect degraded the subtlety of my guitar. (I was originally trained as a classical guitar player and am used to digging tone out of instruments with my fingers.) THe sustain unit just seemed to blur the sound and make clean blocking more difficult...
I did find it somewhat useful with a shorter scale lap steel I play alot of blues on- it contributed something to that style...but I doubt it is significant enough to bother with yet another wall-pod device....
_________________
Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 8:17 am
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| Quote: |
| They are buffers and/or impedance matchers used before the volume pedal to eliminate the frequency loss caused by the pot. |
If they are used BEFORE the pot, wouldn't you still experience frequency loss to some degree?
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 10:28 am
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If the signal is buffered or preamplified before the pot, the pot won`t load the pup and cause signal loss.
I`m sure this isn`t a technically perfect explanation but I hope it`s in the ballpark...
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 11:34 am
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| Quote: |
| If they are used BEFORE the pot, wouldn't you still experience frequency loss to some degree? |
Richard,
maybe just a little, but it's not that significant. When a pickup is relieved of the duty of driving the line by itself all the way thru the pot and cords, the pickup itself then gets to preserve it's tone since all it sees is a buffer with a fixed load. The buffer can then drive all kinds of loads. That slight tone loss that happens when a pot is not at full volume can actually be a good thing in my opinion. I see it this way. Backing down on a volume pedal is a way to "soften" the signal. Some of that softening is from the lowered volume, and some of it is in the subtle darkening of the high frequencies. Traditionally, that's the sound of pedal steel we've all heard since the beginning.
Brad |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2008 1:32 pm
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Brad,
What's the deal with Buffers and effects pedals???
I like to use a Boss OC-2, but people tell me it "sucks tone" because it is not true bypass.
Does a Buffer like the SGBB, Goodrich 7A, or Hilton Sustain, eliminate the tone-suck from non-true-Bypass stomp boxes?
Thx,
Pete B. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 4:32 pm
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"True bypass" and "tone suck" are not related. There are other methods than true bypass to avoid the dreaded "tone suck". Most Boss pedals use a buffered bypass that has little effect on tone when "off"; OTOH, old Cry Baby wah pedals and many early MXR pedals are notorious "tone sucks".
Back to the topic - I have a Steeldriver II and it's NOT a "sustain" unit...it's an impedance matcher and a (yucky) fuzztone.
Sustain units are generally compressors by another name, as they raise the quieter signal levels. As I mentioned, though, that ALSO means they will raise the noise level.
A good amp turned up combined with a well-set up guitar is the best sustain unit.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 8:39 pm
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Try a TONE PRESS (parallel compressor), made by Barber Electronics.
You have to order the unit thru a specific dealer. You can't find this unit in basic music stores or places like Musicians Friend.
Go to Barber's website for more info. I use the unit and think it has very good sustain and doesn't degarde my sound at all. Actually makes it sound better. But hey, JMHO.
A nice all-metal unit with only 3 controls: Volume, Blend, Sustain. I use it along with Brad's Black Box thru either an Evans FET500 or an older Peavey Vegas 400.
It takes about a month for delivery and when I bought it, it cost $150 (about a year ago).  |
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