The Ultimate 12 String Tuning And Why?

Terry Wood · From: Lebanon, MO

Hi Forum Members,

I have a serious question for all you who play a 12 string steel guitar.

What do you think is the best or ultimate 12 string tuning and why do you think so?

Thanks!

Terry Wood

Dan Burnham · From: Greenfield, Tennessee

Terry,
Tough question. If I'm playing stuff like Julian or Zane played, I'd rather use Zane Beck's Tuning. If I'm playing Standard E9/B6 I'd use a modified Sierra 12 string Universal.
What's universally true, is you give up something to get something. Where you draw the line, I'm not sure as of yet. There's things I play on Zane's Tuning I Can't Get on any Universal and vice versa. I guess it boils down to what style you want to do.
Dan
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www.danburnham.com

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Hi Terry,
To be in the basic "standard" tuning mode, I'd say Jeff Newman's tuning would be a good start. Then add extra pedals and/or knees from there. Jeff's tuning is basic E9th and B6th on a single neck. It's also easier to transpose from 10 string E9th or C6th tab. Also, easier to interpret phrases or licks from commercial recordings. All of the grabs, plus.
Dennis
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Roger Shackelton · From: MINNESOTA (deceased)

How about Carl Dixon's "Ultimate Universal Tuning?"
It's on an Excel S-12U PSG.

Roger

Andy Greatrix · From: Edmonton Alberta

How about the hexatonic tuning that Doug Jernigan is expermenting with?

Rex Myers · From: Risingsun Ohio, USA

E9th/B6th works for me.
Its what I learned/ am learning on and still haven't exgausted all the possibilties!
_________________
Rex Myers Fessenden U-12, 6 string Lap, Randall Steelman. Fender Princeton ReverbII, QuilterTT12

Rex Myers · From: Risingsun Ohio, USA

Thats exhausted sorry my playing is better than my typing....... really it is Laughing

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Rex Myers Fessenden U-12, 6 string Lap, Randall Steelman. Fender Princeton ReverbII, QuilterTT12

Terry Wood · From: Lebanon, MO

Hi Roger,

Can you elaborate some and tell just what is Carl Dixon's 12 string tuning?

Next, what is the Hexatonic tunig that Doug Jernigan is using?

Thanks Dennis! Yes, I am familiar with Jeff Newman's tuning. I think my tuning is similiar on my 14 stringer but with variations.

Thanks and would like to hear from others.

Terry

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

I have 2 non-pedal 12-string guitars and this diatonic variation works pretty well for me. I think of it as pedals up and down:
F#
D#
G#
E
C#
B
A
G#
F#
E
C#
B

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

I also have a 12 string non pedal guitar tuned low to high-

G# C# E G Bb C D Eb F G G# A This is the Leavitt tuning with an added low note and 5 upper notes.
Here is a classical piece by JS Bach to show what it can do. You virtually use no slants with this tuning.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?dianolxezml

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

imho, One piece of the ultimate 12 string setup includes lowering string 12-B from B>A on the A-pedal.
Another thought would be to have all standard E9th-E_string changes funtioning on string 11-E.
Basically you should be able to use strings 8-12 the same way as you would use your upper register E9th changes, just with string 12 lowering to A instead of raising to C# (I added B-C# to string 12 on the faux C-pedal).
It's probably only goint to be "ultimate" to you though, as everybody like to have their own setup.
fwiw,
~pb

Terry Wood · From: Lebanon, MO

Thanks Guys! Looks really great!

Does anyone else have anything on this?

Terry Wood

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Terry-You might clik on my Website and find a few tunings there. I think on page 6?...al. Smile

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Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.

My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus

Terry Wood · From: Lebanon, MO

THanks Al!

Terry

Terry Wood · From: Lebanon, MO

Hi Chas Smith,

I like your ideas and thinking on the pedals up and down thing. Makes alot of sense to me that way.

Thanks!

Terry

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

No one has mentioned Reece Anderson's Bb6 tuning.
I think of it as Universal reversal.

When I played David Wrights version I had the sense
I was not going E9 to B6 like a stabndard universal,
but B6 to E9, and for my playing ideas this was very cool.
I am more C6 than E9 oriented.

David Wright sounds as country as anybody on it,
but also stretchs out pretty darned far too when he wants.

For me that IS the reason to go uni
power without changing necks all the time.
And both styles available without changing necks.
And Reece is killer on it of course.

Certainly check out
Al 'da godfather of steel' Marcus's
'Lean and Mean Tuning'.
Al knows his business too.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

David-Thanks for the nice comment-. I did use Reece's B66maj7 tuning during the 60's and you are Wright, it is just great for a C6 kinda of guy, that is playing Eb9 too on it. This way you don't have to hold the lever in to play Bb6 or B6, whatever you prefer. I used to buy D12's from Reece and was always experimenting. But I finally found that my E6 "Lean and Mean' with added E9 pedals was more comfortable to me and they were both in the same Key, very handy, so I didn't have to think B6 or something.
I read all your posts and marvel at the engineering and recording you are doing over there in Thailand...al. Smile

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My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus

David Doggett · Posted 8 Mar 2008 11:02 am

D. Donald's post is an example of why there probably wont ever be a rigid standard for the changes on a uni. It is highly adaptable to different styles by keeping the basic string tuning the same, but varying the lever and pedal setup. Here are some common variations:

1. Emphasis on E9 - basically a very standard E9 setup with three or four E9 pedals and five knee levers (F lever, E-lower lever, 2nd string lower lever, a D lever to replace the D string, your choice of a 5th lever). There might be no center lever cluster for B6, and only three B6 pedals (equivalent of C6 pedals 8, 5, 7, with the D lever doing dual function as pedal 6). This is cool for a died-in-the-wool E9er who just wants to get the extra strings and add a little B6 capability.

2. One big tuning - similar to above, possibly sacrificing one of the E9 levers for something for B6. The idea is to not use a lock, or to have to shift your left leg out of one lever/pedal cluster to another. You want to be able to get everything you've got from one position. David Wright has an interesting compromise. He spaces LKR further to the right and has two vertical levers between LKL and LKR. This cluster is above pedals 1-4. But the problem is you can't use LKL with LKV2, or LKR with LKV1. And you can't use LKL with pedals 3 and 4, or LKR with pedals 1 and 2. So while there is an extra vertical lever and extra pedal in the cluster, you can't smoothly access everything within the cluster, as you can with a single vertical lever cluster over pedals 1-3. My impression is that this sacrifices a little for E9 while gaining a little for B6. However, it does maintain the one big tuning concept, without moving the left leg between separate clusters. And it makes the B6 pedals easier to reach, and opens the possibility for one or two more B6 pedals.

3. Duplicate both E9 and C6, as separate tunings - three or four pedals and up to 5 levers are dedicated to E9. There is a lock (for B6, E9 or both). Three or more pedals are dedicated to B6, and there is a center lever cluster over the B6 pedals. You play one tuning or the other at any given time, but sacrifice nothing on either (in fact, you gain a couple of extra strings on each, compared to a D10). Died-in-the-wool D10 players often complain that they have to give up a change on one or both of the tunings. But that ignores the fact that you are gaining all of the many changes of the whole other tuning you have access to all the time.

4. Emphasis on B6 - the open tuning is B6 (or Bb6). You have to use a lever or lock to get E9 (or Eb9). Usually something is sacrificed on E9 (the lever that gives E9 for one) and there may be extra stuff for B6.

So it seems everyone should take the basic tuning, and setup the pedals and levers to suit their own style, without worrying too much about standardization. It is by far the most versatile tuning, and we shouldn't let unnecessary standardization limit that.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

What David said is correct in my opinion. If you're into Country lean 9th. If you're into Jazz, lean 6th. If you want a little more of either one, use the locking lever. However, if you want the constant creativity of moving in and out of each tuning on the fly, don't lock.
Also, listen to what Randy Beavers is doing on the E9th S-10.
Decisions?? Smile

_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I played the E9/B6 tuning for many years before changing to what I have now about 4 or 5 years ago. It's basically an extended E9 in which I tune the 2nd and 9th strings to C#. It's like this high to low: F# C# G# E B G# F# E C# B G# E.......

I play guitar a lot and I can seem to relate a lot of my guitar work to this setup much better and with my E's lowered I can do some of the E9 scale things in B6 starting at the B root on string 10. With my setup you have the 2nd note of the scale next in line the same as in E9 on string 8 and next is the F# note and so on.

Guitar things such as a Chuck Berry bass line is right there as is the lick (in the key of A) where Chuck rocks between his 2nd string at the 5th fret and his 3rd string either bending it or skipping to the 9th fret. On my set up I just go the the 8th fret and play string 2 and then bring in the unison on string 5 with the A pedal.

Also my 2nd string is usable with Es lowered, raised, pedals down or up. I don't see ever changing back to anything else. Even the good old "D" string that I'd been missing is back on string 9 with my LKR which raises strings 2 and 9 C#s to D. I'd missed that 6,8, & 9 grip on E9th. I tried raising the 9th string B to D to put it back on the 9th string when I played the standard Uni but I didn't like that as I lost the open B note....JH in Va.
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Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Jerry's Post above here makes a lot of sense. tuning the 2 and 9 string to C# and pulling it up to a D on a knee lever will work well. I never liked pulling that B up to D on a Uni because you lose the B and that is important to me. That way you have a lot of E6 in there and with a couple of C6 type pedals, you can play, E9 extended and E6 both. I do this on my S12 "Lean and Mean" tuning.
If I remember years ago, Hal Rugg was one who did this for a while. He was a great Musician...al. Smile

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My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Depending on the tune
I also have tuned both 2 and 9 down to C.
On the front neck D-10 in this case.
D usually for the 2,
but I often leave the 9 C# down below.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Michael-That is a good way to go for a UNI E9/B6 and a lot of guys are doing that Raising the 10th string G# to B and the 9th string B to D on the same lever. I think even BE has tried that. In a way, I think that gives it a stronger bottom as you suggested in your post ,for so many new licks . .....al. Smile

_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.

My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

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