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Topic: Question on nut height, for builders... |
Tim Carlson
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2008 11:53 pm |
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I've gotten most of the peices I need to fix my 8 string. I'm gonna use aluminum 1/2x3/4 angle for the nut. The fretboard wood seems a bit thicker than I originally thought. (No, I din't measure it beforehand. Stupid me.)
The guitar has a 24 3/4 scale. How high from the fretboard should the strings rest when in the nut? |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2008 4:48 am
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| I use a measurement I got from several of my old lap steels. it is 1/2". |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 29 Feb 2008 12:32 pm
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| When I read this post, my Dual Pro was sitting next to the PC, and I measured 7/16 between the strings and the fretboard at the nut. 1/2 inch would be fine also. |
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Tim Carlson
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2008 10:35 pm
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| Thanks guys. They weren't the answers I was hoping for, but a shim, or another trip to "home d' pot" isn't the end of the world. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 29 Feb 2008 11:42 pm
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| It only needs to be high enough so that the strings don't touch the fingerboard, and so that there's enough space to pick the strings without the picks touching the body. Other than that, the height of the nut and bridge don't affect the tone of the instrument. The height above the pickup should be about the thickness of a quarter. The higher the strings above the fingerboard the more parallax error in sighting the frets. |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Tim Carlson
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2008 12:45 am
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Alan and Tom, I do appreciate your input, however it wasn't so much a question of tone, as it was about a minimum height needed for string "deflection" without fretboard contact at the twelfth fret.
I had figured (again, without measuring first. I should know better.) that the thickness would be around 3/16ths, and that I would have enought height from the 1/2x 3/4 aluminum "L". As it turns out, the fretboard is about 3/16" thick, but there's also another 3/32" EDIT between the "front" of the headstock and the "back" fretboard.
So I ended up with a bit LESS than 1/4" height at the top of the nut from the fretboard, and I still need to notch for the strings.
I think I'll go back to the hardware store tomorrow and get a piece of 3/4x3/4 @ 1/8" thick angle aluminum, as I can also make up for my erroneous decision that 1/16" thick would "be just fine".
I'm just glad I haven't hacked at the guitar yet, aside from chiseling out the old nut.
My thank's to all of you. I'll post up an update when I finish.
Last edited by Tim Carlson on 1 Mar 2008 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2008 11:57 am
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| The distance between the strings from the fretboard/heighth of the nut does make a difference in sound/tone. Don't know why, or which factors matter, but there is a significant change for the better when the strings are raised. Maybe not in every instance, but enuf that I've noticed it. |
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John D. Carter
From:
Canton, Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2008 12:12 pm
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| I agree with what Ron has stated. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 1 Mar 2008 4:16 pm
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| I think Alan is correct about the paralax caused by string height. The visual angle between the bar and the frets would be increased by higher strings. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 1 Mar 2008 6:55 pm
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| Ron Whitfield wrote: |
| The distance between the strings from the fretboard/heighth of the nut does make a difference in sound/tone. Don't know why, or which factors matter, but there is a significant change for the better when the strings are raised. Maybe not in every instance, but enuf that I've noticed it. |
The only reason I can see there would be a difference is that with a higher bridge and nut the angle of the strings passing over them is more acute, increasing the downward pressure, but that should only make a difference on an acoustic instrument. |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2008 9:46 am
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many good points bought up.
string angle across the nut is important.
if you are building a flat headstock type lap steel; such as the Georgeboards models, then string height can come into0 play.
the lap steels I have built had an angled headstock. a bit more time and care in building, but I like the look. (and I believe there is a 'feel' in the instrument with an angled headstock).
my advice is to take measurements, set up a model to look at. a straight edge the scale length of your instrument wo5rks nice. I am a visual person when building. |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2008 11:43 am
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Just for the record, the acoustic in my avitar was a standard setup before I converted it to a lapsteel. As a standard it had very uninspiring tone and sustain but after I raised the strings 1/4" it made a tremendous difference. That change alone tranformed this guitar into a tone machine. I know that break angle is important, but I've changed the break angle on guitars before and it never made this kind of a change. There's something about raising the strings that made profound difference... at least on my acoustic.
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 2 Mar 2008 12:57 pm
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If your acoustic has a fixed, classical-type bridge, increasing the bridge height will increase the vibration of the bridge. It's like working the end of a lever. But, like a lever, the vibrations parallel with the strings will have less of an effect on the bridge, since they will be divided by the increased distance from the fulcrum. The vertical vibration, will be increased because of the increased string tension. That's bound to have some effect on the tone characterists.
But be careful. The increased tension and rocking motion could crack the table or pull the bridge off.
I've seen a Weissenborn where the bridge was too high and the strings just tore the bridge off, taking part of the table off with it.  |
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Tim Carlson
From:
Arizona, USA
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 4 Mar 2008 6:09 pm
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I thought I would throw a couple of photos in of the nut and bridge of an acoustic Melobar 10-string. Notice that with the extreme height of the strings above the body at one side it has been necessary to take the string weight with a tailpiece and connect the tailpiece to the bridge with a bar.
If the height of the bridge changes the tone, you would think that with the enormous difference in height between the 1st and 10th strings that there would be a big tone change, but in actuality I haven't noticed any.
Notice also the additionsl support under the bridge. |
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