Msa Resolution/ Info Request

Dave Horner · From: Heath, Texas, USA

I am trying to locate the following people in connection with the post on this Forum entitled MSA RESOLUTION. If you are one of those people listed below would you please contact me? If you know any of such people would you please ask them to contact me? Thank you. Named locations represent best available data for country or state of residence:
1. Helge Johannesen, Norway
2. Janne Lindgren, Sweden
3. Jan Visser, Netherlands
4. Dave Tunnicliffe,Auckland, New Zealand
5. Randall Harrington, Waxahachie, Texas
6. The spokesperson for the heirs of Mac McLendon, Land-o-Lakes, Florida
7. Glenn Tackett, Armory, Mississippi

[This message was edited by Dave Horner on 31 March 2002 at 09:15 PM.]

[This message was edited by Dave Horner on 31 March 2002 at 09:26 PM.]

Peter · Posted 1 Apr 2002 2:48 am

The email address for Jan Visser is:

trudy.visser@hccnet.nl

Dave Horner · From: Heath, Texas, USA

Peter- Thank you very much.

Dave

Nick Reed · From: Russellville, KY USA

Dave
Will these "from the past" MSA customers be offered full cash refunds or credit toward a new MSA guitar?
Nick

Dave Horner · From: Heath, Texas, USA

Nick,

The MSA RESOLUTION process is driven by the desire to reach an equitable conclusion for all parties and contemplates various steps including collection of data, mutual review of any options, and a conclusion. Without assessing at this time whether it would ever be appropriate to discuss in a public forum any financial options which may be available to participants in the process, we do believe that it would be inappropriate at this time since the first phase of activity, which is designed to identify participants in the process, is ongoing and will not conclude until June 1, 2002.

Dave

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

Dave Horner, is that a yes or a no?

Dave Horner · From: Heath, Texas, USA

Bobbe,

The MSA RESOLUTION process is driven by the desire to reach an equitable conclusion for all parties and contemplates various steps including collection of data, mutual review of any options, and a conclusion. Without assessing at this time whether it would ever be appropriate to discuss in a public forum any financial options which may be available to participants in the process, we do believe that it would be inappropriate at this time since the first phase of activity, which is designed to identify participants in the process, is ongoing and will not conclude until June 1, 2002.

Your Friend,

Dave

B.Jenkins · From: Parkersburg, WV...U.S.A

Bobbe, do you undersdtand all of that double talk ?????? I even had my poodle to look it over, and she understood everything. like the old saying goes...Baffle them with brains, and dazzle them with Bull #@$*t..B.Jenkins

nick allen · From: France

I've stayed WAAAYYY off of this subject, since I know nothing about it except what I've seen on the Forum, and it's none of my business... but since my job sometimes includes interpreting "legalese" and putting it in plain English, I (somewhat hesitantly) propose my simplified version of Dave Horner's reply:

"1. Right now, they are trying to identify all those involved.
2. There are various possible courses of action, which can/will be discussed with the people involved.
3. The possible courses of action are not *at this stage* a matter for open discussion on the Forum (i.e. in public), whether or not they may be in the future.
4. If you are *not* personally involved, it's none of your business."

Point 4 is my overall interpretation. Anyone who feels they have a *right* to information, because they *are* personally involved, can presumably take the matter further in private email.
I hope Mr Horner and Mr Anderson in particular will not object to this interpretation/simplification of their intent, and if they do I can only apologise...
Nick
(just a disinterested observer, who prefers seeing the Forum used for more productive and less divisive purposes)

Fred Jack · From: Bastrop, Texas 78602

Nick Allen ... Well said! My sentiments exactly! If you ain't involved stay the hell out of it! Let those who are work it out.
regards, fred

Frank Estes · From: Huntsville, AL

Fred Jack · From: Bastrop, Texas 78602

Frank, for your information I can get any info I want from Reece, Tom B. or any number of people involved but why would I want to.
You can also go to any dealer and buy what they have for sale ,pay cash and not worry about deposits. You can also go to many of the manufacturers and do the same. As for you the key to your post is that you didn't lose anything!

Guest · Posted 4 Apr 2002 5:17 am

so, I guess the lesson we are to learn from this post is that if you see a wrong done to someone else, just look the other way, don't respond, don't react, don't take an interest. Hmmm. I sort of remember somebody a long time ago teaching us to take an interest in our fellow man. Maybe he got it all wrong.

The part of this post that I really don't understand is the list of names in the very first post. That's the same list that was put on the forum earlier by Jim Molberg. Are we to believe that Jim is the only guy who can provide a list of people who lost deposits? In other posts, Maurice has mentioned that he still has the records from MSA. Surely those records would include the names of these people.

Uh oh, I think I forgot to mind my own business.

Richard Gonzales · From: Davidson, NC USA

Mr. O'brien,

I suggest you go to the subject of
MSA RESOLUTION/INFO REQUEST in the
PEDAL STEEL section and read Mr. Horners
April 1st 2002 answer to Smike. Also,
Mr. Horner wrote about the subject of MSA's records in MSA RESOLUTION.

smike · From: oakland, ca

gang -

i think the discussion is still so open because dave horner's post specifically addresses SOME issues, and specifically does NOT address others.

here's what i keep coming back to:

I. mr. horner says he is stepping in 'to help ... attempt to identify those individuals who previously paid MSA for products they did not receive.'

ÊÊÊÊÊhe stops short of adding '... so we can make restitution'.

II. he goes on to specify two parts to their process: (1) determine the names and (hopefully email) addresses of and (2) obtain succinct information regarding the basis and amount of their un-refunded payments. he reconfirms that ALL they are doing is gathering info, and puts a date on it: 'The process of gathering data will extend until June 1, 2002, and that date will mark the conclusion of the data collection process'... after which he will 'provide the information to the principals of MSA'.

ÊÊÊÊÊall he has promised to do is gather information... information that has already been published in multiple places, and sent directly to maurice... he does NOT say what the principals of msa will do with the information. NO promises have been made, other than to 'obtain information'.

III. he says that 'individuals who believe they are entitled to recompense from the old MSA' should email him and goes on to say 'In summary, the principals of MSA have asked me, as a friend, to assist them in attempting to locate and obtain relevant information from those persons who prior to 1984 paid the old MSA for products they did not receive.

ÊÊÊÊÊhmm... half the people on that short list of folks don't have email... also, if dave and msa are REALLY trying to gather information about 'those persons...', why not take an ad out in a few of the the more popular steel guitar newsletters, and maybe even guitar player magazine, requesting such information? what about sending an email request to the 7000 steeler email addresses tom bradshaw has collected?

IV. also, maurice has stated that he had mailed offers to buy back the comstock mining stock to all recipients (but none of the stock recipients said they received such a letter). he went on to tell the aforementioned 'individuals who believe they are entitled to recompense' that because they didn't respond, they agreed to keep the stock as compensation.

ÊÊÊÊÊwill dave and msa send registered letters to the invidividuals to ensure that there is a paper trail for all back-and-forth communications, to make sure nobody falls through the cracks (again)?

VI. again, the 'PRINCIPALS OF MSA HAVE NONETHELESS CONVEYED TO ME THAT THEY HAVE A DESIRE TO EQUITABLY ADDRESS THIS ISSUE'

ÊÊÊÊÊok, why not say HOW or WHEN?

VII. another interesting comment is: 'the facts and folklore become less relevant and, in fact, pale in importance in comparison with an attempt at resolution - an attempt the MSA principals desire to make'

ÊÊÊÊÊhaving the desire to do something, and actually doing it, are two different things.
let me be clear... i applaud dave's and msa's first steps... but let's remember that the immediate effect of dave's post was to turn the heat down on maurice and msa re: this issue... but ONLY because the implication is that they WILL be making restitution.

many of us are friends (and 'champions') of the current list of folks who lost money, and will be keeping a close eye on what happens.

bruce aka smike

[This message was edited by smike on 05 April 2002 at 11:15 AM.]

Frank Estes · From: Huntsville, AL

Exactly, Smike! Implying that the right thing will be done is not equivalent to the right being done.

As Yogi would say, "It ain't over until it's over!"

And, there are many of us out here keeping score!

Peter · Posted 5 Apr 2002 10:54 pm

Be realistic guys! To design, develop and launch any new product will cost an AWFUL LOT of money. If MSA is doing this properly, there may be very little money left for restitution. It is MSA's responsibility to stay economically viable. And surely the players want to make lots of money (because they are clearly used to it). After the launch the smokescreen will clear (and some "politicians" return to Washington

). So, what do you guys think will happen?

[This message was edited by Peter on 05 April 2002 at 11:49 PM.]

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

I read Molburg's position, including Tom Bradshaw's installment. Also the article in SGW about the demise of MSA. Interesting stuff, that's for sure.

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 06 April 2002 at 05:07 AM.]

Dave Horner · From: Heath, Texas, USA

smike, frank

We are collecting data until June 1, 2002, and would be grateful for
assistance in compiling a complete list of eligible persons who may desire
to participate in the MSA RESOLUTION process. Therefore, should you have a
list, complete or otherwise, of such persons, you may be able to ensure they
are contacted if you are willing to provide it to us. Alternatively, should
your list be confidential, we would appreciate you encouraging any such
eligible persons on that list to contact me at my email address or to make
contact through the regular mail address that was appended by edit to the MSA
RESOLUTION post. We respect the right of anyone who elects, for whatever
reason, not to participate and, thus, a person's eligibility must be coupled
with his or her desire to participate having been personally expressed by
him or her in writing and received no later than June 1, 2002, in order to
be included in the process. Should you have the opportunity, please mention
to the others who are "keeping a close eye on what happens," or "keeping
score" that we are happy for their abiding concern, but would likely feel
additional elation if it were being manifested by their identifiable
cooperation in our effort to identify eligible participants. It is expected that subsequent phases of the process will be conducted privately with the persons
involved.

Dave

Quesney Gibbs · From: Anniston, AL

As one who was directly involved in the MSA demise my experience makes me believe that all the resolution hype is just that. Hype!!!

I sent Reece a money order for $1650.00 for a universal model and after a few lies from the factory about the progress of the building progress then silence...

After trying to call and getting an answering service I smelled a rat and sent a letter demanding my money back. No reply...

Finally, I received a badly typewritten letter from Reece telling me the company was defunct.

I was offered no stock or anything else for my money.

So I fully expect nothing to come of all this except that Reece and his associates are buying time to get their new venture off the ground and hoping the people flim flamed years ago will go away...

If it ever comes to any court action I will produce my documents there. However I should not have to do that because I know for certian that Reece et al have the same documents I do unless they held a little bonfire in someones back yard years ago...

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Mr. Gibbs, I assume that you have contacted Dave Horner about your situation. If not, I urge you to do so. This may be your last chance to get your money back.

"It takes a lot of money to start a company"... I think that resolving this issue is the best way for MSA to spend their initial advertising/PR budget. They are getting tons of free publicity about it here on the Forum. Smiley faces from the nay-sayers this summer would really put the company back on track.

That's just my opinion. I know I'm not supposed to have one, but I had to say it.

------------------

Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
-System Administrator

Dave Horner · From: Heath, Texas, USA

Quesney,

Actually, you may believe what you wish. I think, however, you should have indicated the following facts: Your email to me on April 3, 2002, noted on the email as having been sent at 4:53 AM, was replied to by me at 8:09 AM that same day thanking you for your response and noting that by copy of my reply I was notifying the MSA principals, showing both Reece and Kyle's names and email addresses thereon. A message from the principals describing certain aspects of the balance of the process is to be sent in the next day or so to those currently registered in the process. This is a voluntary process on the part of the "new MSA" principals and will be carried out with decorum or not at all. In the MSA RESOLUTION post, we indicated that if you preferred to air your complaints by some other means you would not be a participant in the process.

As of now you are dropped from the process. Nonetheless, the principals have advised me that if you immediately and publicly with a post on this thread (1) confirm the facts which I specified above as to our contacts, and (2) apologize for that unseemly, unfair, and inaccurate outburst, you will be reinstated in the process without penalty. You are welcome to be skeptical about final results until there are final results. You are not welcome to make statements such as you have about the people who are voluntarily attempting to resolve matters with you. Should you choose not to be reinstated in the process that is, of course, your business. To the extent you are reinstated and you elect to again disqualify yourself, there will be no second reinstatement.

Dave Horner

Mike Weirauch · From: Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe

Frank Estes · From: Huntsville, AL

quote:

As of now you are dropped from the process. Nonetheless, the principals have advised me that if you immediately and publicly with a post on this thread (1) confirm the facts which I specified above as to our contacts, and (2) apologize for that unseemly, unfair, and inaccurate outburst, you will be reinstated in the process without penalty. You are welcome to be skeptical about final results until there are final results. You are not welcome to make statements such as you have about the people who are voluntarily attempting to resolve matters with you. Should you choose not to be reinstated in the process that is, of course, your business. To the extent you are reinstated and you elect to again disqualify yourself, there will be no second reinstatement.

This is very fishy. First, this whole process is an attempt to make this look like an official settlement to a class-action lawsuit. I don't know if Mr. Horner is an attorney (I doubt it) and I doubt that the court is involved here. I am not sure, but I suspect that for any such attempt to settle would have to have the court involved for it to be legally binding. I could be wrong. In other words, you all could go through with this little charade and still not release yourselves of the right to be sued by the aggrieved parties who do not sign up for whatever is being planned here.

The idea that someone can voice an opinion/concern in America and is suddenly eliminated from the restitution process is very, very suspicious. I do not recall any attempts of a settlement to a class action lawsuit (I know that currently there is not a class action lawsuit here, but Horner and the rest are acting like it) requiring that the participants say nothing, if they cannot say something nice.

THE ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR SUCH SETTLEMENTS IS PROOF OF LOSS/INJURY.

This is really beginning to smell...

[This message was edited by Frank Estes on 07 April 2002 at 10:00 PM.]

Peter · Posted 7 Apr 2002 11:00 pm

-=b0b=-,
As usual, your opinion is very valuable. It would indeed be a very cost-effective form of advertising or public relations excercise if MSA were to solve any past problems with an amicable and acceptable solution. After all, a huge number of their potential clients read the Forum and any negative outcome could discredit the company.

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