Just an olde guy........with time to wonder.......

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I'm really curious how many thousands of dollars have been spent by steel guitar players..... replacing both guitars and amps in search of 'that sound'?

WHEN........it was simply an improper placement of the right hand, and bar hand, and amp settings and/or strings/picks.

James Mayer · Posted 26 Feb 2008 10:37 am

I agree. Now, sell me one of your 15 classic Rics. Smile

I'll trade you an Artisan.

Mark Mansueto · From: Michigan, USA

Richard Sevigny · From: Salmon Arm, BC, Canada

I think a lot of players start out on the assumption that if they have the same gear as (enter the name of celebrity musician here) they will somehow recreate that individual's tone.

Personally, I agree that tone is mostly a product of technique. To sound like (enter the name of celebrity musician here) you would also have to work on reproducing their style, phrasing, and other nuances.

I also think that many musicians are too eager to emulate the sound of others and neglect trying to find their own voice on the instrument. But then that requires a consummate approach.
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If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.

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Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I don't know about amps. But as for guitars, there is more issue than just tone. I have, over the years, owned a six string resonator, an eight string resonator, a six string weisse, a six string electric, a long scale 8 string electric and a short scale eight string electric. My playing ability vis a vis the particular guitar I was trying to play at the time was one of the issues. The practicality of the guitar as far as its function within the setting I was playing in was another. My long scale electric 8 didn't want to stay in tune in alot of the outdoor or semi-outdoor settings that I still play to this very day. The fact that I was not exactly sure what I was trying to do on the guitar was another factor. I still have a six string electric and an 8 string short scale electric. I'm thinking about getting another 8 string reso. That is because for some situations I need an, "acoustic," instrument. But I have pretty much settled into my niche.
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Amor vincit omnia

Fred Kinbom · From: Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.

When it comes to acoustic (non reso) lap steel, I was first time lucky with my Lazy River Weissenborn! Smile

I love the sound I get out of it, and people have commented on several occasions that it blends very well with my singing voice. While I can appreciate the beauty of other instruments and their sound, I suffer from no Weissenborn GAS whatsoever.

Now, electric steel is another matter. I wonder if I will ever find an amp that can deliver the sound I know is in my 1937 National New Yorker - a guitar I love playing but know could sound much better than it does through the Fender Blues Junior. But Ray has a very good point about adapting ones technique - I am starting to learn how to get the most of the sound I have available through the amp I have got, and how to counteract many of the (to me) negative aspects of its sound by picking in a different area, for instance.

For me the "ultimate sound/tone" is when the sound coming out of the guitar corresponds with what I want to express. I have never been the least interested in sounding like anybody but myself.

Fred
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www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

Hey Ray, who told you that you are old? Very Happy

Fred, my New Yorker was bought with a National amp, and it still sounds the best thru that amp. We are talking 1950 when I bought them. And I have a bunch of amps of many types. The brochure for the guitar sez "bell clear harmonics" and they were not exagerating one bit Very Happy

Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

It's not just steel players, but all musicians can fall prey to the gear lust syndrome.

I know musicians who spent countless thousands on just the right vintage guitar, tube amp, speaker replacements, monster cables, etc. And yet they sadly can't play very well at all.

I have had students that think buying better equipment will make them play better, when they really just need to practice on their old axe and learn to play. (I will often pick up their instrument: Bass, Steel or Guitar and I can play it just fine, it stays in tune and sounds great)

Now there are real limitations to cheaper instruments, and every serious musician at least needs a tuneable easy playable guitar. Once the inexpensive instrument has been mastered, then it is reasonable for the player to upgrade, and achieve the best tone on the finest instrument he can afford. First things first... Wink

Just my 2 cents.... Dom

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I found lap steel to be a very different animal than standard guitar. For one thing, while there are many tuning possibilities for standard guitar, there is a standard tuning. It has a tradition that crosses all musical genres and is over 1000 years old. How to build, tune and play one of these is well established.
Lap steel is barely 100 years old. There is still some question as to whether it is a melody instrument (as Jerry Byrd said) or whether the playing of a wide spectrum of chords is absolutely necesssary to its effectiveness. There are several more or less standard tunings, to wit: Low and High C6, A6 and several different versions of E9/E13. And let's not forget about Leavitt tuning. We also have many people who INSIST that the earlier G and D (or A and E if you prefer) were the best tunings after all. And then we get into whether 6 or 8 strings is preferable.
They have for the most part been limited to country music and Hawaiian until just recently when they began to be used for rock and blues. They have yet to break into jazz or pop in an important way. And only pedal guitars have played any signigicant classical music.
Also, we still haven't really figured out how to build them. Weissenborne engineers are improving the volume (I think they've always been the best for tone), resonator builders are experimenting with cone styles and wood types for greater volume and better tone. And makers of electric instruments are also still working with various tone materials. For instance, metal versus wood.
There is a real question as to which lapsteel styles are going to survive in the long run. For many things that some lap steel players like to do (chords for instance), a pedal guitar is far superior.
There are a million questions to answer for someone who wants to play a lap steel. Questions that don't come up with any other instrument. That's why so many people like me are on the forum.
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Amor vincit omnia

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

Some people enjoy the never-ending tone quest. And that includes technique as well as instrument. One size does not fit all.
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Primitive Utility Steel

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

This topic kinda reminds me of the individual at a convention who, while admiring JB's masterful touch, stated: "Harmonics are just impossible on my guitar"
(or words simi). Jerry asked to have the offending guitar brought to him to find out what the problem was. Jerry then played that guitar so beautifully, harmonics poured out and the poor chap who owned the guitar just stood there with his mouth open. Proves a point...it all happens immediately behind the picks and steel bar.

Kevin Greenberg · From: Lakewood, CA

My guess is probably 1,000,000,000! When they should of just bought a rickenbacher and picked over the 24th fret. Cool

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

Practice is the key word. "If at first you don't suceed..... Dabbling at playing the steel just doesn't work. Getting right into it BIG TIME is the only way to get where you want to be.

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

That's the only sense in which it IS just like any other instrument. Very Happy

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Amor vincit omnia

Eddie Cunningham · From: Massachusetts, USA

Ray , I think those of us who started playing in the 40s had a "cross to bear" !! We all thought that if you bought that Bake. Rickenbacher we would sound like "THE GUY" on the "Grand Ole Opry" !! Then we all bought different amps and installed different speakers trying to achieve the impossible !! Now 60 years later we find that it is not possible to duplicate that "sound" !! So I think we all have probably spent a lot of money chasing the "Impossible Dream" !! But the chase was fun !! There is only one "BYRD" and he flies SO high !! Good luck with your "Volu-Tone" !! Eddie "C" ( the old non-pedal geezer )

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