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Topic: How many of you use a volume pedal? |
James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 10:55 am |
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I've been playing a lot lately without a vol pedal and I feel like my playing has improved as a result. It's one less thing to think about.
How common is it to use or not use a vol pedal? How many of you use the pinky/vol knob method? I can't seem to get this to sound all that great. |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 11:27 am
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I use a volume pedal to help with sustain and to give my playing more life and emotion in the piece that I am playing.
I don't feel that all music can be played at the same volume and give it any expression.
_________________
(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!) |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 11:30 am
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| Right, that why I use one as well. However, just like when playing guitar, volume and dynamics can be controlled via right hand technique. I think I'm simply better at controlling my instrument this way. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 11:53 am
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Would hate to try to play without one,Use one for years before I started playing steel on guitar,I played an old Les Paul,if you used the volume knob on the guitar the tone would change,Would keep the knob on the guitar wide open and control the volume with the pedal.DYKBC.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 12:00 pm
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| Yeah, I don't like using the volume knob. It's affect on the instrument's tone is very apparent. |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 1:13 pm
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As I gain more experience playing, I find that I practice with fewer items between my lap steel and the amplifier - just a cord connecting the two most of the time.
I used to rely on a volume pedal all the time, but now if I don't use it, it's not that big a deal.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Bill Wynne
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 1:16 pm
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| Brad Bechtel wrote: |
As I gain more experience playing, I find that I practice with fewer items between my lap steel and the amplifier - just a cord connecting the two most of the time.
I used to rely on a volume pedal all the time, but now if I don't use it, it's not that big a deal. |
Ditto. Plus I have to come learn that the pedal is anathema to Hawaiian steel playing.
_________________
For the best in vintage Hawaiian music - featuring plenty of steel guitar - listen to...
HO`OLOHE HOU RADIO - http://www.hoolohehou.net |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
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I learned using one that "comes on in reverse" ...
Then I put it away for about 5 yrs ...
Now I'm back to it ... and I won't be puttin' it away again ...  |
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Bill Brummett
From:
Greensburg, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 2:52 pm
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| I've pretty much used one forever. I understand all the comments above. I find that a lot of the time when I'm learning something new or just fooling around, I don't even use the amp. I find that this does make me use better technique. But when I'm plugged in, either on my non-pedal Fenders or my D10 Remington pedal, I rely heavily on the volume pedal. I use it primarily to increase sustain, but it's also great to "ease into" certain notes or chords and to "back off" certain sounds. Along with palm blocking, left hand blocking, pick blocking, it's also another way to smoothly mute certain sounds. |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 2:56 pm
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I don't use one. But my playing is very acoustic in its style. I only use the electric guitar because it's easier to get the volume I need with it. Other than that, I may as well have a weissenborne.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 3:57 pm
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| Quote: |
| I've been playing a lot lately without a vol pedal and I feel like my playing has improved as a result |
Putting away the vol pedal is the precise reason for your improvement.
Pertaining to the notion that a volume pedal helps sustain - I ask how much sustain does one need?
How many beats are you needing to sustain? Most of the time it is no more than four. Learning to oscillate the bar can help your sustain without resorting to a vol pedal and furthermore a good oscillation helps with developing a good tone or sound.
I am with Brad, the fewer gimmicks between the steel and amplifier the more one develops their own sound and style.
Now if you want to be a technicrat, acquire every gadget you can get. But then you will begin to sound like every one else with the gimmicks.
Now that I got that off my chest, I feel more relief.
Aloha, 
Don |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 4:07 pm
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I don't use it to increase sustain ... got plenty of that with my steels and vibrato ... 
It's an "attack" thing for me ...
The initial transient of a picked note ... is much higher in volume with a steel guitar ... than in a human vocal, a violin, a cello, a piano or even a spanish style guitar ...
Well, I for one, enjoy hearing that transient "tamed" that a bit ... ala Jerry Byrd.
Regardless if it is not considered "Hawaiian" sounding ...
Don, like I told you over on the HSGA forum ... it's a "part" of me ...  |
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Jim Strawser
From:
Montana, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 6:06 pm
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 Im new but took me almost a month to score a De Armand volume pedal of of Ebay and i noticed it did increase the sustain when the sound started to die some. I feel i will always use one now, just my humble opinion though. Good Luck to you my friend!!
_________________
"Steel players are like fine wine, we get better with age" |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 6:22 pm
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I used the volume pedal more when gigging. now I use it out of habit....ok, I will be honest. I use it because I am too lazy to walk behind the amp and flick the Standby switch while I unplug one lap steel and plug in another.  |
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Charley Wilder
From:
Dover, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 6:25 pm
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| I hate the damn thing! I don't care who's using it! |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 6:54 pm I love the volume pedal....
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...but only for country, and western-swing music, that is. It's ingrained now, and part of "the sound."
NOT so much for Hawaiian style, though. Sounds all wrong to me. I love the dynamics of touch.
I take my que on this from Dick Sanft, who's taught me more about Hawaiian steel playing than anyone else I've ever met. All his dynamics lie in his right hand.
TJW
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Bill Wynne
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 7:03 pm
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| Rick Aiello wrote: |
It's an "attack" thing for me ...
The initial transient of a picked note ... is much higher in volume with a steel guitar ... than in a human vocal, a violin, a cello, a piano or even a spanish style guitar ...
Well, I for one, enjoy hearing that transient "tamed" that a bit ... ala Jerry Byrd. |
I get that. I don't know why - if it's pick-up placement or just simply technique - but I can't tame that intense attack. A volume pedal could have done the trick IF I were any good at that. But, then again, I never learned to drive a manual transmission, either.
Can anyone name another steel player out of Hawai`i who used the pedal? (Technically, there may be NONE as Jerry was not out of Hawai`i but into Hawai`i.) Alas, Jerry was the ultimate in taste. The reverse-function pedal might merely have been his preference, but he was actually on to something because that gave him a hell of a lot more control over the attack by letting up on the pedal for volume rather than pushing down.
I played steel guitar at the Halekulani Hotel once. When I showed up on the gig, the volume pedal - that I toted all the way from NJ - didn't work. Harold Hakuole laughed and said, "Don't know why you brought that anyway!"
_________________
For the best in vintage Hawaiian music - featuring plenty of steel guitar - listen to...
HO`OLOHE HOU RADIO - http://www.hoolohehou.net |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 8:00 pm
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I still use my old DeArmond now and then, about twice a year  . And now that I know it still works, I'll check it out again next fall.
I'm very comfortable with a pedal, and used it all the time in the old days, but it's also just another thing to lug around. If I feel like playing a little country (old) stuff, I'll drag it out of the closet. The DeArmond I have is the old cast aluminum job, and it eats pots. Another reason not to use it much.
Everyone has their way of playing, and I wouldn't fault anyone for using a pedal. |
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Gerard Ventura
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 8:26 pm
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| As a beginner, I'm avoiding it. I have one, but I was using it to 'test' the notes at low volume too much. just my 2c. |
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Al Terhune
From:
Newcastle, WA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 8:54 pm
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| Rick Aiello wrote: |
| The initial transient of a picked note ... is much higher in volume with a steel guitar ... than in a human vocal, a violin, a cello, a piano or even a spanish style guitar ... |
I'm not sure about that. With finesse, good technique, and good amp volume, I don't notice "the initial transient of a picked note [as being] much higher in volume..." I find I can control initial attack on lap steel just as successful as when I play fiddle (which really can have an initial transient note that is much louder) sans a volume pedal.
Additionally, listen to all the old pros that didn't play with a volume pedal. Attack is in the hands (Ha! Here we go...). I don't mean this as a critique, but you can tell Jerry Byrd used a volume pedal in most of his playing, just like you can hear it in pedal steel playing.
_________________
Al
My equipment:
One heck of a Wife
The ghost of a red Doberman
Several pairs of reading glasses strewn about |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 9:39 pm
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I've been playing about half my gigs these days on a lap steel. ( 8st ricky panda) I don't use a volume pedal with it. I stopped carrying a volume pedal out of laziness and now I enjoy how leaving everything raw changes my playing.
_________________
Bob
Last edited by Bob Hoffnar on 20 Feb 2008 5:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2008 9:49 pm Good ol' JB
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| Jerry always sed to keep your foot off and away from the pedal to help in not using it too much. He also slid into the note slightly to lessen the attack's punch. |
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 20 Feb 2008 3:54 am
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I use it all the time, but then I don't play Hawaiian or Western swing, but roots rock & alt.country. I use it a lot for fading in chords (kinda like chord pads from a keyboard), and for doing violin-like solos.
Oh, and it's also great for those train whistle/truck horn effects, much easier to concentrate on picking when you don't have to spread off your pinky to roll up the volume.
BTW, I'm also using it when playing my Tele a lot of the time, great for making those pedal steel bends sound more authentic.
In fact, I'm really looking forward to the reissued Fender vol./tone pedal, where I could also do tone fade-ins with my foot. |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2008 5:00 am
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| Quote: |
| I'm not sure about that. With finesse, good technique, and good amp volume, I don't notice "the initial transient of a picked note [as being] much higher in volume... |
I'm sure ...
Compare sonograms and/or waveforms ... from sampled instruments ... it's very obvious.
It's not technique ... it's simply physics ...
Were taking about the greatest steel guitar "technician" ... of all time using one ... almost constantly ...
| Quote: |
| Jerry always sed to keep your foot off and away from the pedal to help in not using it too much. He also slid into the note slightly to lessen the attack's punch. |
I have about 8 hrs of JB on video tape ... and I'd say a good 98% of the time ... he's working the VP ... even on the fast songs.
His use was very subtle ... you still heard the picked note ... just "less of it" ...
I'm not talking "violining" here ... I don't like that ... regardless of who is doing it or how they are doing it ...
I'm talking about a more even volume envelope ... as seen in a human voice profile.
| Quote: |
| The reverse-function pedal might merely have been his preference, but he was actually on to something because that gave him a hell of a lot more control over the attack by letting up on the pedal for volume rather than pushing down. |
I agree ....basic anatomy and physiology.
Rest your foot on the ground ... and while keeping the heel firmly planted ... raise the ball of the foot as "slowly" as possible.
Now do the reverse ...
Which action is smoother with alot of control ... ???
Which action is more jerky ... ???
But that said ...
I sat and watched Ray Montee live ... demonstrating perfect "JB" style VP ... on a normal pedal ...
Like with any aspect of steel playing ... it takes years of practice to achieve (or come close to) this type of perfection ...
As I said .. I don't care if its "not Hawaiian" ...
It's the subtle beauty of using a VP this way ... that is so attractive to me.
Just explaining my points of view ... |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2008 6:29 am
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In my normal way of doing things around here ...
Here's an excellent "study" piece ... JB playing acapella ... Kauai Beauty ...
Heres a couple waveforms from two sections:
From 0:29 to 0.57 seconds :
From 2:04 to 2:33 seconds :
Notice/hear that transient attack at 2:04 ... that he "let pass" ... close-up below
That's the characteristic "spike" of an "attack transient" that I am talking about ...
Most have been lessened by JB's VP ... some so subtly ... that you don't realize he's even doing it.
Think of a highly "emotional" and "intelligent" compressor ...
One that knows when to come on ... and when not to ...
When to be subtle ... and when to be more aggressive.
He combines touch, vibrato, p'tah and Volume Pedal ... to create this masterpiece of sound. |
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