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Topic: theory question : what's the mystery chord ? |
mickd
From:
london,england
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Posted 10 Feb 2008 1:21 pm |
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Not sure if this is the right section, but here goes :
If I'm playing C6 tuning in the key of Db and I play a DbMaj7 chord (position 1, strings 3, 5, 6, 7, with the X lever engaged to lower 3) and then engage 5 & 6 while changing nothing else, what chord do I now have ?
Closest I can get is DbMinMaj7b5 but I bet thats not right (not sure it's even legal !)  |
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Fred Amendola
From:
Lancaster, Pa.
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Posted 10 Feb 2008 2:38 pm
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I would say it's an Eb13b9.
The root would be on your raised 10 string. |
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mickd
From:
london,england
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Posted 10 Feb 2008 2:44 pm
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Fred
spot on ! The excellent chord finder confirms you are correct  |
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John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 10 Feb 2008 9:49 pm
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MickD,
The fact that you have depressed both pedals 5 & 6 insinuates that it's a chord from the diminished scale. The two usual possibilities are a diminished chord, or a 7b9 chord, both of which are derived from that diminished scale.
With or without the lever lowering your 3rd string*, the chord could be Db diminished, E diminished, G diminished or Bb diminished.
As far as 7b9 chords, as Fred mentioned, it could indeed be Eb7b9, but it could also be Gb7b9, A7b9 or C7b9.
* With respect to the lever lowering the third string: If you use pedal 5&6 without it, you will notice that the chord is a stack of minor thirds. This is every second tone in the diminished scale. By lowering the 3rd string, you obtain one of the other four notes in the scale which are not included in that "stack of minor thirds" voicing. That's why Fred's 7b9 chord included the 13th... that's the note on the third string. If the chord is in fact Gb7b9, then that odd note on the third string is the #11. If it's C7b9, then the third string is the root.
The same thing goes for any of the diminished chord possibilities - the third string note is one of the notes in the scale, but not one which is included in the "stack of minor thirds" voicing.
Anyway, that's a long drawn out explanation of the 8 most common things that voicing could be. But here's what ties it up for me:
| Quote: |
If I'm playing C6 tuning in the key of Db and I play a...
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Since you are playing in the key of Db, I would call it an E diminished chord. (flat 3 diminished). I would also bet without knowing that the chord following it would be some form of Eb minor chord.... it just makes sense in the musical-pattern scheme of things.
An example of the use of this diminished chord with that particular note on top (although not in the key of Db) would be the chord 5 bars from the end of "All the things you are", or the fourth bar of "Witchcraft".
Hope that helps.
-John
Last edited by John Steele (deceased) on 12 Feb 2008 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mickd
From:
london,england
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Posted 11 Feb 2008 4:10 am
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John
your reply made me go back and look closer at the (handwritten) fake sheet I was using. I realised that I had misread the handwriting. The original chord sequence was actually /Db6 Edim7/Ebm7/ so you were right on both counts
(The Edim7 was written as "E07" and I misread it as Eb7 - which made no sense to me; the chord I came up with was what sounded right to my ears - which are now vindicated  )
One thing I don't understand is you seem to be saying that whether its a 7b9 or a dim chord is a matter of choice - even though that choice involves (in the 2nd case) ignoring one of the notes being played (the 3rd string). I've always thought a chord must include all the notes being played - why should one of them be optional ?
Thanks for your help
Mick |
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John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 11 Feb 2008 6:26 pm
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Hey MickD,
"One thing I don't understand is you seem to be saying that whether its a 7b9 or a dim chord is a matter of choice"
Well, no. What I meant to convey was; If you're playing "name that chord", and the chord stands alone without being in the context of a tune or chord pattern, that particular group of notes could be construed as any one of those.
However, diminished chords and 7b9 chords function differently in chord progressions, so that narrows it's possibilities.
But, put into the context of a tune in the key of Db, then that seems like the only logical possibility.
As far as including (or not) the note on the third string, I could say alot about that, but I don't want to bog your query down with buckets of theory unless you want me to expand on that. If I had to put it into one statement, it would be this:
Once you understand which scale a particular chord is derived from, you find you can use virtually any note from the scale inside that chord to add character and colour to it, without changing it's harmonic function.
I hope that helps. I would say more, but I'm trying to stay under 192 words per post. 
-John |
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mickd
From:
london,england
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Posted 12 Feb 2008 4:00 am
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Thanks John - that post was just the right length
I think I was getting hung up on the difference between the actual chord and its melodic function - e.g. if the melodic function is C7 you might play C9, which may have an extra note (depending on how many you play) but still has the melodic function of C7. |
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John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 12 Feb 2008 10:13 am
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MickD,
That's it, exactly !
-John |
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