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Topic: Some Of The Sound Is In The Wire ???????? |
Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 7:35 am |
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ernie |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 8:53 am
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| Could it be the way the Pick ups are wound makes a difference in the sound of the guitar??? |
Of course! But then again...so does the amp, the settings, the speaker, the type of strings, the design of the guitar, and so on. The pick up is but one small link in a whole chain of things that affects the sound. Generally, I find that pickups of the same design have pretty similar sounds. It's only when you make big changes in design (such as going from humbuckers to single-coils) that you hear really significant differences. I've proved many times (to many players) that a one-number change in your mid control makes far more of a tone difference in a pedal steel guitar than most pickup swaps you might make. |
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Wayne Wallett
From:
Shermans Dale, PA USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 10:07 am
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Hello Ernie,
Funny thing you mention that. I have tried to tell people how much different the sound/tone is by changing to Geo-L thin cables. What a difference from regular guitar cables. Another odd phenomenon is a Sho-Bud Super Pro I have with 24K ohm original pickups in both necks. Everybody thinks it would be real fat sounding like a Chalker tone. Not at all, has good highs, mids, lows but not real heavy like one would expect. Some have speculated it would center around the number of coils and gauge of wire that cause the pickups to be hot but not heavy sounding. I would appreciate any comments on the 24K ohm pickups.
Regards,
Wayne Wallett |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 11:15 am
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| The diameter wire used in pups can make a huge difference! Bigsby used larger wire and fewer windings. I hope Rick or Jason chimes in, cuz they know. |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 12:58 pm
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It's all in the picks...  |
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 1:04 pm
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| I'm sticking to the magnets... |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 4:34 pm
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I'd like to learn about winding pickups...I am totally ignorant on the subject. I need to know how amount of windings relate to OHMS, thickness of wire, how the strength of the magnets relate and on and on.
Would anybody care to share their knowledge?
Here or email...whatever you like.
and thanks in advance!
Bent |
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Gene H. Brown
From:
Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, Canada
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 5:58 pm some of the sound
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And believe it or not, some of it is coming out of that little speaker behind you 
_________________
If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!
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Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 7:14 pm Donny
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I was just looking at just one thing, I posted else where it is many things that you need to consider about tone, just drawing attention to pups can change sound to some extent,there are many things connected to tone it may be ever ending. I also had fun with slot racing and managed 2 different tracks Montgomery, Pensacola Fl. Whwn I do a thing I get dee[ly involved with it.
Have a nice day.
ernie |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 8:24 pm
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When I first read this I thought it said, "Some of the Sound is in the Wine.."
I'll drink to that one, I thought. 
...come to think of it, some of the sound IS in the wine...  |
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Jerry Gleason
From:
Eugene, Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2008 11:40 pm
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Ernest, the slot car thing is an interesting analogy to the way we evaluate all the things that affect steel guitar tone. I remember hotrodding those little Mabuchi motors, too, almost 40 years ago. Slanting the armature segments, experimenting with the right number of turns of wire, epoxying the windings, all that stuff. Then finding just the right tires, SKF ball bearings, hot controller resistors, whatever else we believed would give that extra edge in performance.
Not much different than the way we think that all these little things in a pedal steel guitar add up to a better sound, but maybe less of the do-it-yourself factor.
Now you've got me thinking about pickup windings...
Nah, I don't really want to go there. |
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Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Feb 2008 6:29 am yea
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Jerry we had a good time for a while slot racing was hot and then after a few years it cooled down. Tracks sprung up every where. a Lawer came to Pensacola from Montgomery and hired me to run his track.When er set up the track the first day my son set down to test it out for us and set there for 12 hours without getting up. Needless to say no one ever beat him racing.I made the Hercules Motors and sold them all over the US. RED FARMER THE RACE DRIVER came to Montgomery with Dynachargers to try and beat our team but we beat him, them we went to Birmingham and raced him up there. Do you remember the Globe motors the were built for airplane servoe and sold for $125.00, we out run them in every race.
ernie |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 2 Feb 2008 7:29 am
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| Quote: |
| I've proved many times (to many players) that a one-number change in your mid control makes far more of a tone difference in a pedal steel guitar than most pickup swaps you might make. |
Indeed, Donny. Ive said that all along. Thats what makes Peavey's "MID" and "SHIFT" controls so useful. Frankly, for steel, I really don't care for an amp that does not have some sort of parametric control. I simply cannot get all of the "honk" out of it with those vital controls. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2008 10:11 am
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I like having mid control - and I tend to *boost* it, but with other tone shaping controls in ront. The "honk" goes away and a very stong, gutsy tone results...not the high-pitched whiney or icepick-treble tone I personally can't handle.
As far as wire goes, it's far more impotant and misunderstood than most playrs realize. There are varied types of wire used in pickup making, and winding methods as well. Both, along with magnets, spacing, depth, and a myriad of other factors give a pickup its unique qualities.
In guitar cables wire choices are very, very important. You often don't realize it until you do "blind" testing of cables and realize different cabls have different "tone" (or actually control the tone differently).
A cable IS a capacitor. Low capacitance levels generally let more highs through and have more clarity or "presence"; high-capacitance cables can sound middy or muddy. There have ben quite a few tests done over the years, with one about 12 years ago by Guitar Player magazine the most cited. They found George L cables to be at the top of the heap tonally, closely followed by a cheapo cable from Carvin. Some studies have shown many of the highly-touted Monster ables to be at the bottom of the barrel tonally and at the top of the price chart. In cables, you do NOT get what you pay for, and every player should do some research on this instead of blindly buying expensive cables because of extensive marketing campaigns.
FWIW there are players who used certain "bad" cables for a reason - Stevie Ray Vaughan used a cheap one that let a lot of mids through and cut the highs; Clarence White used primarily one prized cheap "curly cord" because it had a sound he could not get any other way.
I use mainly George L's, but keep some curly-cords and some 50' custom-made Beldens around for certain uses. One of the Beldens I use only with my '66 P Bass, as the George L's give me too much top end noise and I get a better "thump" with the long Belden.
Last wire note...a reminder: NEVER use a guitar cable as a speaker cable. The mismatch in wire sizes in a speaker application can cause all srts of heat problems, cooking both speakers and output stage parts in the amp. If you have a head/cabinet setup, CLEARLY mark your speaker cables - and make sure they are fairly large-gage wire as well.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Steve Hinson
From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
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Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Feb 2008 9:11 pm hi
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Steve he used exspensive wire in his motors, we used cheap rewound $1.50 motors, that I rwound. He they spent all their time on the track trying to rurf us off, we spent our time outrunning him.
ernie |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 4 Feb 2008 12:03 am
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I have been experimenting quite a bit with winding pickups. The gauge of the wire makes a significant difference in the sound. So does the tension of the wire as it is being wound and the amount of wire used. You combine this with inductance and you have major control over the tonal response. It is not subtle. The trick is to find the right Q point to match the guitar to the players ears. I have been making a few pickups for the last year and a half and I learn something new that i didn't expect every month.
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Bob |
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