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Topic: Did Hippies Hurt or Help American Music? |
Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 9:50 am |
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Aside from what my hippie parents' generation gave birth to [questionable fashion and personal hygiene, flexible mores, other-worldly (read "unproductive") intellectual pursuits, and the overall championing of mediocrity], I've wondered lately about what that generation spawned (as well as preserved) musically.
I'll admit to being something of a musical "conservative", so I know I can't apply my generalizations to EVERY member of what I believe is now a black mark of a time period. But lack of practice, sloppiness, meandering (non-dynamic) solos, loud volume, distortion, and mostly inarticulate lyrics are but just a few characteristics. Oh yeah, and jam bands.  
So what musical characteristics have survived from that era that would be considered a worthwhile legacy? I know there are more than a few hippies, practicing and non-practicing, on this Forum, so it would be interesting to hear your take on this. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 10:15 am
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| Quote: |
| I know there are more than a few hippies, practicing and non-practicing, on this Forum, so it would be interesting to hear your take on this. |
There probably are, but maybe not so interested in having a dialog with you after your lovely characterization of their contributions to society! 
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Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 10:22 am
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| The same generation (as well as previous generations) assaults, critiques, and sizes up my generations' (and younger) music all the time. If my tone is not tempered or scholarly enough, then they'll have to look past it. |
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Greg Simmons
From:
where the buffalo (used to) roam AND the Mojave
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Steve Hitsman
From:
Waterloo, IL
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 10:33 am
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| Should we assume that your conservatism doesn't end with music? |
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 10:47 am
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I think they are responsible for the never-ending guitar solos most lead guitarist play over the singer, steel player, and anyone else in the band stupid enough to get on stage with them.
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 10:47 am
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| Matt Rhodes wrote: |
| The same generation (as well as previous generations) assaults, critiques, and sizes up my generations' (and younger) music all the time. |
... as well as your personal hygiene, mores, intellectual pursuits, championing of mediocrity, and generally being a black mark on society? Sheesh!
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Greg Simmons
From:
where the buffalo (used to) roam AND the Mojave
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 10:52 am
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| Quote: |
| I've wondered lately about what that generation spawned (as well as preserved) musically. |
you mean, besides the
greatest American band ever (well ok, maybe not ever, cus we can't see the future, but ...so far)?   
anyway, food for thought on humpday...
_________________
<i>�Head full of this kaleidoscope of brain-freight, Heart full of something simple and slow�</i>
-Mark Heard
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 11:07 am
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Matt, looks like you opened 1 big can of woims man
this thread's gonna go real far
i was a hippy & am still alive after havin' the time of my life
it if was'nt fer Jimi why Robert R would be steelin' today
they obviously helped American Musik
Last edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 30 Jan 2008 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 11:07 am Re: Did Hippies Hurt or Help American Music?
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The great musical contributions from the golden age of my generation are
| Matt Rhodes wrote: |
| lack of practice, sloppiness, meandering (non-dynamic) solos, loud volume, distortion, and mostly inarticulate lyrics...and jam bands. |
Those are all very dear to my heart. It just depends on your perspective. 
You didn't really expect a serious answer to the ignorant, prejudicial and derogatory way you asked the question, did you?
Since you say your parents were worthless hippies, what is your generation, and what do your consider its great musical contributions? |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Dave Van Allen
From:
Doylestown, PA , US , Earth
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 11:43 am
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other worldly intellectual pursuits...
like creating the personal computer? |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 11:58 am
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What happened in the 60s and early 70s opened up a whole lot of doors, and the 'sloppiness' and 'excessiveness' was necessary to do that. It's the typical "pendulum swing" effect,- it always goes a bit too far before it stabilizes.
Personally I consider the years from 65 to 75 as the golden decade of rock,- and I'm no 'old hippie', I was born in 58 so I was a little late for the party (though I did my best to make up for that during the 70s... ).
Steinar
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
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Larry Miller
From:
Dothan AL,USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 12:43 pm
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This particular hippie, contributed much IMHO
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Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 1:00 pm
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Steve, the answer is "no". This post is about music. Let's keep it that way.
Jim, you didn't answer my question. This post is about Hippies, not Generation X.
No, Doug, I prefer brevity and music with a point. Most popular music from the 80's, as far as I know, didn't have pitch correction, etc. It was recorded in much the same fashion as before that, except with a few enhancements (digital reverb, chorus, flange, etc.). The 50+ generation is largely in control of the music industry (i.e. big labels/corporations) that produces the pitch-controlled stuff you hate today. There's no law against being prejudicial and ignorant - it still got a response from you. And I still love and respect my Hippie parents, but history is unfortunately proving them to be wrong.
Dave VA, Hippies didn't invent the personal computer. If memory serves, it was "officially" invented by IBM in the late 50's. That was a little before your time.
David D, my generation brought back optimism and fun to music. We also brought back a fair amount of discipline, structure, and practice. I agree it's not an "invention" per se, but try to compare the musical chops and abilities of just the Neo-Classical Metal era to those players of the 60's and 70's.
Crowbear, I'll give you that. Jimi was simply Jimi. Imagine what he could have done had he not given in to heroin, like so many other Hippies. We could use someone like him today for sure.
Jim C, if you mean me personally, I'll have you know that I do bathe every day. I also eat right, go to the gym, shave, have no tattoos or piercings. And my hair has always been short. I study five languages outside of English, am a stained glass artist, have a full day job, play and sing Hawaiian music. I'm also married and own a house. I'm sort of an exception to Generation X, but I can't fault you for not knowing that.
And I know there are exceptions to the Hippie generation as well, but my opinion still holds. Hippies are (sadly) now pretty much homogenized and mainstream, which is kind of ironic in spite of all that past innovation and protest.
Last edited by Mat Rhodes on 30 Jan 2008 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 1:22 pm Re: Did Hippies Hurt or Help American Music?
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| Matt Rhodes wrote: |
lack of practice, sloppiness, meandering (non-dynamic) solos, loud volume, distortion, and mostly inarticulate lyrics are but just a few characteristics. |
Except for the distortion part, I thought you were describing old time string bands for the '20s and '30s.
_________________
http://www.oldbluesound.com/about.htm
http://www.facebook.com/cowboytwang |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 1:26 pm
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I still consider myself a hippie. And I'm proud of it. I consider your characterizations to be not only grossly ignorant but also self serving in that they help you to feel superior to and therefore safe from people with ideas that you feel threatened by. Having said that, I will go on to say that in every person, every movement, every country, every race and etc., there are some things that are admirable and some things that are perhaps not so admirable. In general, I didn't care for the music of that time. And I don't care alot for where things have gone from there. But I think the slide really began in the 1950's or even earlier. When popular styles of jazz like the classic style and swing lost their creative vitality, something had to fill the breach. Unfortunately, bop couldn't command a mass audience. So a musical culture developed that was less about music and more about showmanship and spectacle and personal identity. I suspect that this is nothing new. I'm sure it must have happened before. How often do a group of genii come along and create something like jazz? Seldom. Most of musical history must be made up of times when musical culture was less than scintillating.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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P Gleespen
From:
Toledo, OH USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 1:28 pm
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| Matt Rhodes wrote: |
| I'll have you know that I do bathe every day. |
Well, see now! No wonder you're having a hard time understanding the contributions of the hippy generation. Too much soap! 
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Patrick |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 1:31 pm Re: Did Hippies Hurt or Help American Music?
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| Matt Rhodes wrote: |
| So what musical characteristics have survived from that era that would be considered a worthwhile legacy? |
To answer your original question... the contribution of musicians in the 1960's and early 70's was to challenge the strict formulas that made pop music boring and predictable in the 1950's.
Look at the music charts from the early 1960's and compare them to the songs a decade later. This era is considered by many to be a 'Golden Age' of popular music because creativity and experimentation were exploding.
It wasn't all good, of course. Some experiments fail. But at least people were trying something new. |
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P Gleespen
From:
Toledo, OH USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 1:40 pm
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| Matt Rhodes wrote: |
Hippies didn't invent the personal computer. If memory serves, it was "officially" invented by IBM in the late 50's. That was a little before your time. |
I don't think that's right. I'm pretty sure the earliest PERSONAL computers were from the 70's. And I'd say for sure that the first usable and practical personal computers were indeed the handiwork of hippies. Dirty stinkin' hippies.
| Quote: |
| my generation brought back optimism and fun to music. We also brought back a fair amount of discipline, structure, and practice. I agree it's not an "invention" per se, but try to compare the musical chops and abilities of just the Neo-Classical Metal era to those players of the 60's and 70's. |
Sure, when I think of fun and optimism in music, the first thing that pops into my mind is Neo-Classical Metal! 
| Quote: |
| I also eat right, go to the gym, shave, have no tattoos or piercings. And my hair has always been short. I study five languages outside of English, am a stained glass artist, have a full day job, play and sing Hawaiian music. I'm also married and own a house. |
You left out the part about your charming way with words.
Are you having a bad day at work?
_________________
Patrick
Last edited by P Gleespen on 30 Jan 2008 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 1:43 pm
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The sixties was a confront the establishment era that brought out many great musicians and singers who we came to be known as outlaws of music genres. Musicians and singers could do cross over genres and still be accepted.
Willie Nelson and Wayland Jennings were considered the country music outlaws who refused to do only the established country sound.
Music's melodies died, and the lyrics became the foundation of a song. Hate you mom and dad and rape your sister became acceptable and fashionable lyrics.
I think that was also about the time when it became acceptable that women could ask a man for sex and bras ended up in the trash can. |
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P Gleespen
From:
Toledo, OH USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 1:50 pm
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| Les Anderson wrote: |
Hate you mom and dad and rape your sister became acceptable in music.
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Well I've got to admit, you don't hear about that aspect of the '60s too often.
What a weird thread this is. Shouldn't we start to talk about how all rap is bad now? ...and why hasn't anyone criticized Jerry Garcia's steel playing yet?
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Patrick |
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Greg Simmons
From:
where the buffalo (used to) roam AND the Mojave
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 1:58 pm
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| Quote: |
| Hippies didn't invent the personal computer |
well, these guys invented mine 
in fact one of 'em sold his VW bus to help finance the whole thing...can't get too much more hippie than that eh 
_________________
<i>�Head full of this kaleidoscope of brain-freight, Heart full of something simple and slow�</i>
-Mark Heard
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Steve Hitsman
From:
Waterloo, IL
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 2:04 pm
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| Did Matt Rhodes Hurt or Help the Steel Guitar Forum? |
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Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2008 2:06 pm
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I think my generation also invented the Search Engine:
Try Googling "first personal computer", then we can have a real conversation. 
Steve, I'll tell you what I helped you with. The SGF has been pretty stale for the last few months. Now I've given you something real to think about and discuss, instead of whether today's country is real country, whether you like rap, RR, or whatever else your complaint of the week is. |
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