Playing Live

James Collett · From: San Dimas, CA

I play steel with my church (I play both 6-str. and steel), running from my effects, Mesa preamp to an old '64 deluxe amp. The setup may not be the best, but it sounds good enough and could probably be loud enough to be heard over everything else if I had to, but the person @ the board insists on micing (a word?) me through the board. Using my volume pedal is a challenge because the sound tech. doesn't know much about mixing steel, and so when I back out or just mellow down so as to not get in the way of whatever else is going on, I get turned up so I am at the same level as the other players. When I go to swell, fill a turnaround, or just get louder I am rediculously loud out of both monitors and PA, so he turns me down too low, so when I back out again, I can't be heard. And the cycle repeats, over, and over... Confused

I've asked to just use my rig with the volume up a tad, and get some excuse which makes no sense, and when we sound check before we play, I ask him to set it at level, if not, just a microfraction higher than everyone else when I'm loudest, and adjust minimally. But that doesn't happen. Sad

Any ideas/suggestions?
Thanks!
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James Collett

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Oh, I've had this problem. With a Deluxe Reverb, I would want to be miced up and run through the PA, but properly so. I think you need to be more forceful and tell him he needs to stop constantly riding your channel fader. You may need to explain how steel players use a volume pedal and how the steel normally sits in the mix - many sound people just don't understand. He should set your mix level and leave it alone unless it gets long-term out of whack. IMO, it's a mistake to constantly ride the fader for a player competently using a volume pedal.

Of course, this encumbers a steel player to be very careful with the volume pedal, and especially not overwhelm the mix when playing backup. I'm not suggesting you are - but if someone is stomping the vocals, they should expect the sound person to pull it back.

All my opinions, of course.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

That happens sometimes,Played a club a few times that had a good sound system,but the guy at the board was clueless,At sound check I would get my LEAD volume set and told him just leave it alone,by the end of the first set he would have me turned way up.He said sometimes I could'nt hear you,I told him sometimes I'm NOT playing at all,I'm just padding behind the vocals or the other lead instruments or not playing at all,when it comes my time for me to play I use MY volume pedal,He FINALLY caught on.DYKBC.
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Brian McGaughey · From: Orcas Island, WA USA

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Tell him to set it and leave it. If he can't do that, it's his fault, not yours.

Take the steel OUT of the monitors, so that his shenanigans don't affect what you and the other musicians are hearing.
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Dave Harmonson · From: Seattle, Wa

I've run into that same thing a few times. I had some friends I would sit in with who added a sound man who thought he should provide the dynamics with the players staying at the same level. So just as you said he would turn me up when I was trying to play quiet and turn me down when I was stepping it up for a solo. Drove me nuts and I had to quit playing with them until they came to their senses and fired the sound man. I think sometimes a sound man feels he has to do too much. A couple of years back a local DJ was having a birthday party at a club where I play quite a bit and they hired me to do sound. Three bands and the headliner so to speak was the Hillbilly Hellcats from Colorado. With each band I made a small adjustment in the first couple of tunes and then stayed out of the way. The Hellcats told me it was the best sound they had on their whole tour. The old axiom of less is more is true for sound techs as well as musicians.

Brian LeBlanc · From: Falls Church, Virginia, USA

- Our classic country band just got gig playing a local church

- outside my normal comfort zone

- any suggestions for couple of spiritual songs?

- our stndard material is Merl Haggard, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams
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'Frenchy' LeBlanc...
ShoBud & Twins

Bo Legg · Posted 26 Jan 2008 2:01 pm

Volume's a common problem with sound men and Steel guitars. You just have to learn to use your volume pedal as if it were a noise gate, all the way off or all the way on and play hard on the rides. However my biggest complaint is the sucky EQ usually set somewhere between sh t and shinola.

Myrna Beasley · From: Illinois, USA

Here are titles of four songs that the congregation probably will recognize: What A Friend We Have In Jesus, The Old Rugged Cross, Sheltered In The Arms Of God, It Is No Secret. The first two are in most hymnbooks; the others should be available on-line, either through tab, midi, etc. Have a good one.

Myrna Beasley
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Excel D10

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Education, education, and education. You have to teach the guy. If he's not willing to learn or incapable (I've had both in years of church gigs where the old guy who used to have the radio shop became the "soundman".) you get him axed, you split or you live with it.

Hopefully he'll be receptive. But you have to be real clear about how steel is used in that setting and let him know that, contrary to his "common sense", the steel player *always* controls the volume levels like that - it's part of the style. Ask him to set/forget/listen during a sound check and see what happens.

Good luck. 75% of the time I've fired them or quit.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Ronald Sikes · From: Corsicana, Tx

Brian,Go to the Del Way website and liten to "I'll take it anyway" ,"Cross Standing in the way",and you'll really like "Swingin Doors" this one's very Merle Haggard sounding.One of my favorite's is "The old man is dead".The gospel band I play in does this one and it's real pretty on steel.Lot's of good songs on there.Listen to several of them and I think you'll find a couple you like...Take care,Ron
http://www.christianoriginals.com/music/artist.php?id=2
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Show Pro #26 & #83,BJS bars,Stereo Steel,Tommy Huff cabs loaded with JBL D130's, Wampler pedals,NV112,NV400, Steelers Choice Seats

James Collett · From: San Dimas, CA

Thanks everybody!
Brian- what kind of duct tape should I use? Evil Twisted

JK
I kinda' figured I would just have to lay down the law, but I just wasn't sure how to go about it. Now I know.
Gracias
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James Collett

Steve Gorman · From: Gilroy California

Another thought on teaching this sound guy about laying out - the other night I was reminded (watching Johnny Gimble on TV) how fiddle players will just tuck that baby under their arm and just stand there and smile when they are laying out. A couple of the horn players that I sometimes work with will do the same thing. They'll put the darn thing down in the stand. As a steelman you can't do that, but maybe, after explaining to him the concept of laying out during a verse (or two or three) sit back, and be obvious that you are NOT playing, at all, and maybe he will get the idea. I remember Jeff Newman talking about this in one of his Guitar Player columns, many years ago. Sometimes we musicians have to educate the soundman a little.

Robbie Crabtree · From: New Mexico, USA

Take him out back and Kill em save one of his body parts to show the new sound man what happens to bad sound men.

Kenny Brown · From: Auburn, Alabama, USA

anytime I run thru the board (mic or direct) at a club I get set at the loudest volume I'm going to play at and leave it alone. if it needs to be adjusted after we get going then tinker with it if I'm too loud or not loud enough.

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

I have always maintained that a good sound mixer is worth as much if not more than the members of a band.

I have played with some sound mixers who did not have the slightest feel for mixing sound or instruments.

There have been a few however who have made us sound like pros when we were far it. If you can find a good one, do whatever you can to keep him or her.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I play something for him and tell him that this will be my normal (rhythm) level and play something and tell him that this is my loudest level. Even a half-ass sound man should be able to set you to where the loudest volume will not blow everyone out of the hall. Then I tell him not to touch the level on the board.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Ron ! · Posted 28 Jan 2008 4:16 pm

Carl Dvorcek · From: Texas, USA

I've got the same problem with my bass player who also runs sound. My suggeation....get a new sound man.

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