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Topic: Cabinet Drop ? ? |
Bob Baringer
From:
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 10:50 am |
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| While tuning the E9th (top neck) I was thinking about cabinet flex (which I have very little)..now, thinking aboout Keyhead and Changer give or flex I tried this: kept the tuner (peterson) on the top neck picked the E's open then pressed the pedals on the C6 (lower neck) and the drop was quite a bit more than with the A&B pedals on E9th ? question ! how could that affect the top neck at all especially the Keyhead and Changer theory? Hope I have explained this clearly... |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 10:57 am
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A disturbance force applied to a summing point in the middle of a structure will affect it more than the same disturbance applied closer to the supports at each end.
The force of your pedals hitting the stops is the cause of this particular phenomena as described by you. |
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Bob Baringer
From:
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 11:22 am Thanks John
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| in other words this is definitely "cabinet drop" ? |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 11:45 am
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What we call "cabinet drop" is the sum of several forces. Downwards pressure on the cabinet is one of them.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 12:15 pm
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| B0b is correct. However, you described a specific occurrence. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 1:35 pm
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The downward moment of the pedals is transfered directly to the front of the cabinet, and as John says, pulling down on the center affects the structure more than pulling down near the ends. To see if the flex is indeed caused by the down-force of the pedals, simply activate the same change without using the pedals.
Even your thumb pressing down firmly on the center of the guitar (between both necks) will affect the pitch of most guitars.
Try it! |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 2:06 pm
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| i vote we 'drop' the cabinet drop issue. |
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Richard Damron
From:
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 2:33 pm
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Chris -
Add my vote to yours. |
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Bob Baringer
From:
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 5:19 pm
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| Chris and Richard, I am sorry it bothers you, I post very seldom and understand the issue, all I was asking about in this case was why pedals on one neck affected the drop more than on the neck with the tuner, I have been playing for 55 yrs. and never had much of an issue and few questions as I have built my own guitar and repaired quite a few, I won't bother y'all again...Bob |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 5:54 pm
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Bob,post all you want to,if someone disagrees with you,they are just a mouse click away from not HAVING TO reading you.DYKBC.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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John P. Phillips
From:
Folkston, Ga. U.S.A., R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 6:02 pm
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Hang in there Bob, I think it was just an attempt at sly humor ! 
_________________
Just remember,
You don�t stop playing cause you get older,
You get older cause you stop playing ! http://www.myspace.com/johnpphillips |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 6:14 pm
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| thanx and right john, and richard....no offense bob, post away........cabinet drop is the least of my problems with the sloppy style that works for me....i rarely even look at a tuner anymore, and i seem to be consistently more in the tuning ballpark than when i fussed with it constantly! i've only been playing for 35 yrs and have alot to learn. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Jan 2008 9:56 pm
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Bob B. Thanx for asking that question--it brought some very interesting replys--very informative answers. The answers would not have come without your good question. 
Chris & Richard, I dig the humor, too. |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 5:49 am
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Question:
How long has "cabinet drop" been around?
Answer:
Since the advent of electronic tuners! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 5:59 am
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There's truth in that statement. Some players neglect their ears and try to use their eyes too much - by tuning everything with a meter and by "eyeballing" the bar on the frets precisely to play.
You can't tune and play with your eyes, any more that you can paint by ear. |
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Bob Baringer
From:
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 6:20 am
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| Thanks Guys : Curt, yes the sensitivity of the tuner has caused issues, when I started playing (on the Mayflower)heh heh...I would ask for an "E" and tune from there, we had an accordian to give the "E", bass, rhythm guitar and myself, seemed to be no problem. in the classified adds "instruments for sale" that Gibson lap steel with amp is what my father bought for me and started this whole thing! Thanks again...Bob |
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Richard Damron
From:
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 9:50 am
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Bob -
Chris had the word "drop" in quotes. Pun intended. He got to it just before I did. Certainly didn't mean to demean your legitimate concern. With the help of knowledgeable folks here on the forum, you'll get it resolved. Hang in there.
Richard |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 11:34 am
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| Curt Langston wrote: |
Question:
How long has "cabinet drop" been around?
Answer:
Since the advent of electronic tuners! |
As a beginner, I was aware of the problem long before I had an electronic tuner. I could hear my E string change when I pressed the A+B pedals. Most musicians can hear a change in pitch of 5 cents, and cabinet drop on most guitars is near that threshold.
Whether a 5 cent difference is "out of tune" or not, well, that's another issue. When you consider that that the difference between a harmonically correct third interval and the third on a MIDI keyboard is about 15 cents, 5 cents of "cabinet drop" shouldn't make a difference. Our ears can tolerate more than that and still hear things as "in tune".
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 3:14 pm
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| here's to b0b...a man with a great website and great ears!! |
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Tommy Young
From:
Ethelsville Alabama
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 4:06 pm
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BOB:: I could and still can hear the 5 cents before i got a tuner myself my ears are very sensitive i've been told many times on the bandstand and off it as well
TOMMY YOUNG
MAX-TONE MODIFICATIONS
WHEN YOUR GUITARS TONE HAS TO BE ITS VERY BEST |
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Greg Simmons
From:
where the buffalo (used to) roam AND the Mojave
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 4:23 pm
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I think every cabinet drop thread should come with a free...
decal 
_________________
<i>�Head full of this kaleidoscope of brain-freight, Heart full of something simple and slow�</i>
-Mark Heard
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Jody Sanders
From:
Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 4:37 pm
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| My Pedalmaster only has a two cent drop, so I don,t worry about cabinet drop. Jody. |
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Colby Tipton
From:
Crosby, Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 6:30 pm
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b0b and John Fabian are both correct.
b0b being a layman steel picker and John being an engineer.
Did I say that correctly? |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 7:51 pm
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Jody, My home built has 2.5 . Thats also in the 'no worry' category.
Bent |
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Jody Sanders
From:
Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Jan 2008 8:44 pm
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| Way to go Bent. Jody. |
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