Most Basic E9th Knee Lever (4) Setup

Ben Elder · From: La Crescenta, California, USA

I'm pretty sure there are previous threads that address this, but (given an Emmons pedal arrangement) what are the most common (NOT most innovative, NOT breakthrough, NOT cutting-edge, NOT someone's greatest new idea for avant-garde jazz) setups for 4 knee levers?

I'm talking conventional thinking circa the First Nixon Inauguration.

I just got (what, another?) ZB and the new S-11 is a lot different from the D-10. Both 3+4 on the E9th.

Also, is there ANY agreement--or even strong correlation as to how D..E..F...etc. levers correspond to RKR,RKL, LKL, LKR?

My current impression is that there are no two alike anywhere in the world and I hope somebody can disabuse me of this cynical notion.

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

I'd have to guess that a lever lowering your E strings a 1/2 step to Eb, and another lever to raise the E strings 1/2 step to F. The third lever probably would be to lower your 2nd string 1/2 step D# to D. A common 4th lever would be lowering your B(s) a 1/2 step to Bb.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

From what I've seen, the only real standard items are the ABC pedals; knee levers that raise and lower the "E"'s; and a lever that lowers the second string to "D".

Then there are a lot of common things - but not "standard". It looks to me like the last "standard" to be relatively "fixed" in place is the second string lower.

Everything else seems to vary depending on manufacturer - and even their own guitars vary (GFI's Ultra and Student models - both their 3+4 setups - have different knee lever changes. Go figure that one out.). I figure if even one major manufacturer has multiple "standard" 3+4 copedents, there's absolutely no hope of *multiple* manufacturers ever settling on one standard.

I'm glad I just use my own 8 string 9+2 and 10 string 3+4 copedents. There aren't dozens of lesson materials around that don't apply to me - ALL of them don't apply to me, and that saves me money and all sorts of confusion.

Winking

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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Duane Reese · Posted 4 Sep 2007 3:35 pm

Carter Steel Guitars, that used to (and still does as far as I know) sell more guitars than any other maker, has a page that shows their most requested tunings, to give you an idea of the trends.

Although this page shows the lever that lowers the E to Eb being placed on the LKR most often, it's also very common to see it on the RKL.

Ben Elder · From: La Crescenta, California, USA

Thanks for all the answers. The way I should have phrased the question might be how to set up the knee levers to be compatible with most existing teaching methods and/or tab.

But then, location of the levers (as opposed to their functions) doesn't really enter into that, huh?

Duane Reese · Posted 4 Sep 2007 6:37 pm

Nah, you can put them wherever you want. Most courses that teach the standard lever functions take into account that those positions can be almost anywhere. Usually, they'll call the levers by names like "D lever" or "F lever" instead of "RKL" or "LKR", because there's no telling where you'll have them.

About the best reason I can think of for having a somewhat standard lever approach is that it makes it more likely that you can play someone else's guitar or they can play yours, if your at a jam or something. Not the end of the world if you can't though.

David Doggett · Posted 4 Sep 2007 7:17 pm

Right, the location of the lever changes is irrelevant to most tab.

I agree with b0b, the most common arrangement on both older and new steels seems to be to have the E raise on LKL, the E lower on LKR, the 2nd string lower to D and the 9th string lower to C# on RKR (most new guitar have a feel stop at D and also take the 2nd string down to C#.

Just guessing at some history, some of the earliest pedal steels were simple pull and release mechanisms, similar to a Sho-Bud Maverick. On those it was easiest to have the raises move left, and the lowers move right. Also, since the E raise and E lower would never be used at the same time, it made sense to put them going opposite directions on the same knee. However, mechanisms have long since become more versatile, and I agree with Paul Franklin that one can change from raised to lowered Es smoother when the E lower is on the other knee, at RKL.

One reason there is no rigid standard is that players will never agree on things such as where to put the E lower. And why should they be forced to when the instrument itself is versatile enough to handle it either way?

The most common fourth lever seems to be the 5th string half-step lower to A#. Another common fourth or fifth lever is to raise the 1st string (and sometimes the 7th) to G, giving the 7b for an A7 chord with the A and B pedals down. These changes work well on LKR or LKV.

So it's not really true that there are no two pedal steels alike. I think there are many of them, especially older ones with 3 & 4 for the E9 neck, that have exactly the arrangement b0b describes. Sho-Bud and other manufacturers would make them that way, unless instructed otherwise. And many were shipped that way to music stores, and players bought them and learned to play them that way. Although I now play an S12 E9/B6 universal, for nostalgia reasons I wanted to have one traditional D10 with the most typical D10 setup, so I got a Sho-Bud Pro-III that happened to have exactly that stock Sho-Bud setup (probably was never changed since it was bought in the '70s).

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Somebody correct this if it's wrong:

The Sho-Bud Maverick had one knee lever, RKL. It lowered strings 2 and 8 a half step - a combination of the modern D and E levers.

For 2 or 3 decades, the 4th knee lever in the stock copedent of most manufacturers raised both F# strings to G. Today many players raise their 1st string to G# and lower their 6th string to F# on the 4th lever. Many of them also raise the 2nd string to E on that same lever. Some manufacturers consider this to be standard enough to recommend it over the G lever.

Most steel guitar builders are small shops, and most steel guitars are custom built to the buyer's specification. As a result, many of today's new steel guitars aren't built to a "stock copedent" at all. Notable exceptions are the student models which don't allow flexibility.
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David Doggett · Posted 5 Sep 2007 10:44 am

My Maverick had a single lever, RKR, that lowered the 2nd string to D and the 9th string to C#. I had Sho-Bud add a LKL that raised both Es. Mine was an early one with no nut rollers. Maybe they had the lowers you mention on later models.

I think most manufacturers have always given a direct customer any setup requested. But they also have some kind of standard that they put on if there are no instructions, and that is what they send out to music stores to sell off the floor to walk-in customers. Of course, sending out floor models to music stores is rare these days. Still, some makers have one or more models sitting around their shop for visiting customers to try out, or that they bring to conventions. And they have some kind of standard setup on these - something very close to what you have described.

Bruce Atkinson · From: Massachusetts, USA

As a newbie with having my first steel only 2 months or so, the diverse array of knee lever arrangements is quite frustrating when trying to learn some song from the tabulature.

To help myself learn more quickly, I taped a strip of paper along the back of the neck with all the frets numbered, and came up with a spreadsheet showing each string number, note, and what each pedal and lever did (3+4 on my MSA Semi-Pro). The column "headings" are ABC, and DEFG...or so I thought. I then changed the row height on the spreadsheet until the lines (dashes) for each string exactly matched that of my guitar (24.2 using MS Excel). I cut it out and taped it under the strings under my right hand. PM me and I'll gladly email it to anyone interested.

Apparently, and as discussed in this thread, there is really only limited concurrence on what knee lever does what. While there really isn't a problem for an 'old pro' knowing that the F lever will raise the E's to F, for an 'old rookie' like me (60+), it's still confusion.

The problem -really- starts when reading a tabulature, when one authors' D lever does such-and-such, and another authors' D lever does something different. So far, all the tabulature I've printed out and fooled around with explain what their notations are and in every case thus far, simply reassign the letters assigned to the levers, without changing what they raise/lower. I've sort-of solved my taped-on 'cheat sheet' problem by using Post-It notes sticky-side-towards-me over the DEFG markings with EDFG or whatever it needs to be to match whatever I'm playing.

Am I alone in my confusion or have others had this problem, too?

For what it's worth, I completely understand why one player may favor the F lever as LKL and another as LKR or whatever. It makes things "smoother" for that player. But for the rookie, is there some simple way around having a separate post-it note for each piece of tabulature?

One other question...when an old-hand gets a new guitar and decides that RKV should be what RKL used to do, how difficult is it to re-learn all the music you already know???

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

Bruce

we have all had this problem, in time you won't even think about it it just kinda comes natural to you after a while
when you see something on a tab that your not sure of , play it using the differnt levers until you find the one that sounds right
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