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Topic: question (Sho-Bud) |
Victor Eaton
From:
England
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Posted 14 Jan 2008 1:51 pm |
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HELLO ALL
Well this is the right place to show you know nothing about steel guitars so here goes can someone tell me the differance between a PERMANANT AND A FINGERTIP . If i dont ask it seems ill never know .
regards vic uk. |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2008 2:29 pm
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Victor, the "Permanent" and the "Fingertip" were two of the earliest Sho-Bud models. Read on.
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1) THE PERMANENT
These were the first pedal steels built by Sho-Bud. Starting out in 1957, Shot Jackson and Buddy Emmons began building cabinets and assembling the pedal mechanism in Madison, Tennessee, just north of Nashville. The cabinets of the first several Permanents were all wood with no metal end plates. Soon after though metal end plates were added to the production. The undercarriage parts were welded together and the pedal setups, unlike today, could not be changed. Eight string, and later nine string cabinets were made with pedals, and by late 1958, the three pedals that we know today on the E9, became standard. Shortly after, the permanent model evolved to the standard ten string. The early permanents had no knee levers and basically consisted of raises only on the pedals(which is still the standard E9 three pedal setup today). During the late 1950's and early 1960's, the C6 neck was also evolving, with the Nashville players adding pedals and strings to eventually becoming standard with 10 strings and 5 pedals. As a result, the double neck soon became the norm and many permanent double necks with pedals were produced through these years. It was not uncommon to see a single neck permanent as well. These pedal steels were very well received by the steel players and became very popular. The permanent, sometimes called the Custom, continued to be produced well into the 1960's. Although Shot Jackson and others were adding knee levers to existing steels since the early 1950's, knee levers were pretty much standard on the Sho-Buds by 1964. Even earlier than this, around 1962 or '63, knee levers were starting to gain in popularity.
Up to this time, steel players sat on a regular chair, piano stool, or bench. With the addition of the knee levers, players found it sometimes difficult to set at the pedal steel and reach the knee levers and pedals all at the same time. Long time Sho-Bud employee, Duane Marrs came up with the idea of a seat specially designed for the pedal steel guitarist. Some what higher than the average chair or stool, this seat was the perfect height for playing the pedal steel. Duane Marrs built a prototype seat that included a storage compartment and called it the pack-a-seat. When Duane approached Shot Jackson about the idea of manufacturing the pack-a-seat that he had invented, they figured out that they would have to charge no less than $35 to cover the expenses to build it. No one thought that the steel players would be interested in such a seat, nor would be willing to pay money for it. But to their surprise, the seat was well received and as knee levers were added to the pedal steels, sales of the pack-a-seat increased and soon became, and still is today, a much needed accessory for the pedal steel guitar.
In Shot's old catalog, the number of necks, strings and pedals affected the price of the Permanent model, because these pedal steels were for the most part, custom built. For a double neck 10 string the price was $480, with extra pedals, $50 each.
2) THE FINGERTIP
Around 1963, production started on the Sho-Bud Fingertip. This model was unique because unlike the Permanent, it was possible to change the pedal setup. It was nicknamed the Universal for this reason, and was basically the start of the all-pull undercarriage system. The Fingertip got its name from the fact that you could tune the pedal raises or lowers with your fingertips. On the end of the changer, slotted, finger turntable screws for each of the strings was used to tune the pedals. The changer was designed in such a way that you could raise and lower the same string if so desired. Additional raises or lowers of the same string had to be adjusted in the undercarriage. Although the setup was easy to change, the guitar was very sensitive. It had to be setup and adjusted perfectly in order to stay in tune. Constant adjustment was pretty much a given. But once it was adjusted correctly, it played and sounded great. It had a wonderful tone. Generally, the Fingertip was standard with one, and then later, two knee levers. In 1964, the Jackson family moved the Sho-Bud company to lower Broadway in downtown Nashville. A full service music store featuring Sho-Bud pedal steels and products was offered. Fingertips and Permanents were built and assembled at this store on lower Broadway. The generally accepted era for the Fingertip was from 1963 to around 1967 or possibly later. Suggested prices for these Fingertips during their production run varied from eight to twelve string; single,double, or triple neck. The type of wood and finish, plus any wood inlay work also affected the price. As the Permanent, the Fingertip was considered a custom pedal steel. But for an example, a double-10 listed at $620 and $50 for each additional pedal or knee lever.
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2008 3:21 pm
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Here are pics of the two different model's changers.
Permanent
And a Fingertip
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David Hartley
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Posted 14 Jan 2008 4:00 pm Hi Vic
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Don't worry about all that... Here's a picture of your new 'Rains'. Only 8 weeks to go before I go to Dallas.. You do realise, I may stay in the USA and keep it! 
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2008 4:35 pm
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| David, thanks for elucidating the differences between a Permanent and a Fingertip. I'm sure your post has answered Victor's question! |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2008 5:07 pm
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| On ebay there is a Sho-Bud with a Permanent-style changer but with Fingertip underside mechanics. That is a great combination. Plus, it is a cabinet end guitar with ten strings per neck. |
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David Hartley
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Posted 14 Jan 2008 5:39 pm Hi John
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I know I didn't make it clear what the differences was, but I am just exited to show him pictures of his new steel...I had to look up the meaning of elucidating..! I am from suffolk ! Old steels are rattly and heavy.. Nobody can argue with that. He loves hid Jimmy Day Sho-Bud, but had to get a new one too.. didn't you Vic? I think his brother? (is that right Vic?) has a fingertip? which prompted his question, I didn't even know myself..but have a good explanation now..DH..
Heartbroke, Ricky Scaggs coming tomorrow on youtube by me and John.. I have just gotta record my video parts..KW has gone back to Uni! |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2008 7:39 pm
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"Old steels are rattly and heavy.. Nobody can argue with that."
David, I just thought your post had nothing to do with the question asked. A new Rains is a reasonably good modern guitar, but what was the relevance to the question posed? I think none! There are many who think that the actual sound of the old Perms and F-tips has yet to be equalled. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2008 5:36 am
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John at first I thought that was my ax until I looked at the endplate. What year is yours? Ricky Davis from my description has mine at about a 67.
_________________
2013 Williams D-10, 2019 Williams D-10, 1970 Fender Twin, Evans SE200, Fender Tonemaster Twin, Hilton pedal, Jagwire Strings. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2008 6:30 am
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Chris, there's also a D-12 Fingertip on ebay.
Craig, just to add to the confusion, here's a pic of my friend James Morehead's Fingertip changer that he sent me a couple of days ago.
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2008 6:37 am
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| James' pick-up housing matches mine closer. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2008 6:39 am
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Look at the three guitar's aluminum castings that make up the frames for the changers. Also note the changes in the raise/lower adjustment screws. James' guitar looks more refined to me, so I think his is the most recent. Mine looks the most clunky, so I think it's the oldest. Yours looks to me to be in between, as you have the acorn nuts, like mine, but the more sophisticated lookin' casting, like James'.
Then again, I might have everything bassackwards!
James! Ricky! Coop! You guys out there? |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2008 7:23 am
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| David, sorry for being snippy! I had been awakened in the early am, and had too much coffee. |
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Victor Eaton
From:
England
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Posted 15 Jan 2008 11:29 am fingertip etc
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HI ANDY
many thanks for that info im going to look closely at my sho bud it looks as though its a PERMANENT I thought someone had added the lifting handles at each end but they are identical to the ones shown in the picture.the pickups are not the same but they could have been changed at some point in its life it went through bobee seymours shop three times before coming to the uk.
regards vic.uk |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2008 11:55 am
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Victor, if your guitar is a Permanent, most likely it will look something like this.
If it's a Fingertip, more like this:
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2008 11:56 am
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| Here's a link to the page where I quoted the Sho-Bud info from. It's very informative. Click Here |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 15 Jan 2008 1:22 pm
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Hey John, Thanx for posting my picture. Mine is about '67 according to the Coopster.
The hardware under a permanent was welded, thus no changes could be made easily---thus the name permanenant. What they put at the factory as a copedant under a permanent, you pretty much had to live with. The fingertip came out with primitive CHANGEABLE undercarrage. Soon the fingertips were replaced by the newer improvements. There is a small window of history for these two models, and really most shobud models. Shobud was metemorphisizing pretty much constantly in those years. One thing that was ALWAYS up front with shobuds, was gorgeous TONE to the BONE, and the Permaneants and Fingertips are in a class all their own. Think early Earnest Tubb/Charleton, or early Ray Price/Jimmie Day. |
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David Hartley
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Posted 16 Jan 2008 2:04 pm VIC ?
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| Why don't you post a picture of the underside of yours.. It don't half look like that picture of the underside of a fingertip shown just above my posting.. Although its not tuned with fingers, its a combination of allen keys and pedal stops under the guitar to get your pedals and knees in tune I seem to remember.. Anyway, you wont have to worry about carting all that metalwork around soon when you get your fairly new GREY rains! DH. Did I tell you I am getting a new black one! |
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Fred Bova
From:
Connecticut, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2008 7:48 pm
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| Hi, the Permanent sure looks like the mech of a Maverick. |
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