WOW, detune 2 strings for BLUES !

Fred Bova · From: Connecticut, USA

I was playing around with my tuning, looking for something that felt "intuitive" for playing Blues and I stumbled on this.

When I play Blues guitar I often bend a note on a string up to a unison note on another string, use at lot of 7ths, and a number of 1+1/2 step Albert King style bends.

I found a way to do this on my PSG by just detuning two strings. Because the string tension drops quite a bit due to the detuning, I got lucky and my standard [A][B][C] pulls now pull these two strings 1/2 step greater than usual and it fits the tuning perfectly.

I play in D9 8 string, no chromatics, but I will list this as E9 in order to make it clearer.

Detune your 3rd string down (-,-,-) to e
Detune your 4th string down (-,-,-)to C#

Pressing your [A] pedal down will pull your 5th string up to C#, now a unison with your 4th string that has been Detuned to C#.

Pressing your [B] pedal down will now pull your Detuned 3rd string( Now an e )up by (+,+,)to f#.

Pressing your [C] pedal down will now pull your Detuned 4th string( Now an C# )up by (+,+,+)to e.

Try playing on your 5,4,3 strings while your [A]+[B] pedals are DOWN, then start playing while Rocking on and off of your [A]+[B], and [B]+[C] pedals, and you will find that a lot of Blues/Rock licks just fall into place. All of those "pull to Unison" licks, and those 1+1/2 step Albert King bends are right there. Great for playing in those minor 7th modes.

try this;
----------------------------------------------------
String

(3)----------------------5[A]+[B]-- 5[A]--> 5[A]+[B]

(4)------------------ 5

(5)--- 5 --> 5[A]+[B]

----------------------------------------------------

I hope this works for you in E9 with your string tension. I hope your pulls adjust up by the extra 1/2 step on the 3rd and 4th strings.

Again I play in D9 and I "lucked out" because of the string tension on my particular string set changes just enough to make it playable enough to evaluate the tuning without having to change my pulls.

Fred

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Fred, I'd be willing to bet that just abut anything you can play with this tuning can also be played in the standard tuning. I live very close to you, and I suggest that we get together in February after the Phoenix show and compare notes.
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Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Fred-that's a nice offer from Mike, I hope you can get together.

It looks to me like when you lower those two notes, you are getting a E6 with E9 bottom. more like E13th. We can do that with 10 strings but then the 2nd string has to come out and put it in between the 4 E and 5th B. this way you get you 2 C# unision sound. ...good luck....al. Smile

Edit added-If you still need the D# 2nd string, you can get it by pulling up the new C# a whole tone to D# on a knee lever. That way you don't lose anything, but your grips will be a little different. Decisions, Decisions.....
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Fred Bova · From: Connecticut, USA

Hi Mike, and everyone,

First let me say, Mike ,thanks for your offer, I'd love to talk about it sometime, but I most likely won't have the time to come to your house.

And thanks Al, thanks for your input, you always have great info, boy, we all learn a lot from you.

The reason for this post is that I would like to clarify something.

I did not say or imply that this could not be done in standard tuning.

I said that I was looking for something that felt "Intuitive" for Blues, for me.

I was just sharing what I found.

I'm not trying to "reinvent the wheel", or get into any sort of competition of any sort. I'm just sharing what I found.

I am a excelent guitar player, played prof, as a living for many years, but I play steel solely for my own enjoyment. And I play it in a way that feels right,...for me, just like I play guitar, in a way that works, and makes sense, to me.

I play without any picks, I play D9, 8 string, Day, and I have been playing around with G Hexatonic. And now I have found this "blues" tuning that I find very intuitive , for me,... to play a lot of my style blues guitar on my psg.

I do find it odd that we all Love Bobby Koefer, and the way he plays, even though he holds the Bar in an odd fasion, and plays only with his Thumb and a Thumbpick.

And we Love Ralph Mooney, who plays without the chromatic strings, was the first to add the high g#, and plays with both feet with his own special pedal setup.

And there's Lou Houston, who plays with both feet, on the right side of the PSG, and uses his pinky to do the Volume swells.

And of course there is Buddy E. and Herb R., that added the chromatic strings, first on the other side of the neck as to where they have ended up as "standard".

We respect the Sacred Steel players, who developed many tunings, for what they play.

But,....
Often when I, or some others post an idea, or share something that I, or they, have found useful, that is "Outside the Box", most of the replies are that it can be done using the standard setup. I think a lot of times the intention of the original post gets lost.

I once mentioned to a very well know pro psg player that I play without picks and his slightly stern reply, looking over the top of his glasses, was "Put them on, and leave them on." It was as if I was comitting some deadly sin.

B B King said of Jeff Healey ( who is blind, and plays his guitar on his lap, simular to the way "Thumbs Carlyle" played); "It's like he found a better way to play the guitar..."

Nice open mind.

B B did not feel he had to start playing his guitar on his lap, or offer Jeff H. lessons.

I am not trying to "convert" anyone to my ideas, or way of playing. I am not trying to "rock the boat" as far as cementing a "standard" tuning and way of playing the psg. I am just sharing, ideas and thoughts in a public forum.

As a guitar player first, and a novice psg player, playing the Blues, and Rock style that I do on guitar does not feel, "intuitive" for me on the psg.

I am not interested in spending a lot of time I don't have to try and force myself to learn how to play in some "standard" fasion.

I'd rather come up with something that works, and makes sense, to me.

If anyone can use any of anything I've found useful then thats great, if not thats great too.

I did not suggest anyone "change" anything, or that I found something that could not be done in another fasion. I suggested that it might be fun to "try" something I found useful.

Anyway, hope I did not "step on any toes", I just thought that in general it might be more fun if we were a bit more open to trying something "outside the box", just for fun.

Peace,
Fred

Roger Shackelton · From: MINNESOTA (deceased)

Go For It Fred. Innovation is the mother of invention.

Roger

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Fred: I sympathize with you!

It's the way of things here on the Forum, though. While there are many benefits to be had from discussions, there's a leg-humping element present that will only acknowledge a new idea if it comes from an established 'name' player.

'Rank and file' need not apply Crying or Very sad

I recall posting in response to a thread on knee-levers. When I quoted my somewhat unusual LKV (G# 6th raised to A#) I was told that I shouldn't do that - I should lower it instead.

Hmmm...

Anyway, well done for sticking your head in the lion's mouth!

RR

Marc Friedland · From: Fort Collins, CO

Hi Freddy,
I’m very glad you discovered a way that this crazy instrument makes more sense to you. Some people may argue that if you’re not playing a guitar with “standard” tunings, pedal changes, picks, etc, you may be making it harder on yourself in the long run, because their way has stood the test of the time by so many great players, and you’re only fooling yourself if you think you found a shortcut. I can appreciate that position, but certainly don’t think its correct 100% of the time. That sort of logic is based on the assumption that everyone wants to get to the exact same place, but I think even if that place is good, doesn’t mean it’s the only good place or that everyone wants to get there, and even if they do, they’re entitled to get there using their own path. You have found a method that allows you to play the instrument instead of the instrument playing you, and that’s fantastic. I’m happy for you and truly look forward to hearing your great blues/rock guitar style on your new instrument.
Your friend always,
Marc

Stuart Legg · Posted 12 Jan 2008 11:42 am

just an example of the use of the knee lever that lowers the 2nd string a whole tone. I did this in a hurry so check for mistakes.

Ronnie Green · From: Des Moines, New Mexico, USA

I myself along with many others have experienced with different tunings and pedal/knee changes. I have one that I play with now and I really like it. I'll probably go back to the standard Emmons when I grow up.

C. Christofferson · Posted 12 Jan 2008 7:14 pm

To me your tuning is defininately worth bookmarking and trying sometime when recording some soloing and the like. Not that licks wouldn't be reproduceable in standard tuning, but whenever I tried/used different tunings when recording guitar tracks, something new that you wouldn't have ever hit in standard tuning happens alot.

Fred Bova · From: Connecticut, USA

Hi everyone,
Thanks for all your nice replies. I was worried that I may have been in the "Grumpy Old Man" mode I sometimes slip into.

Mike, I will definitely be at the Jam, I came last year and had a great time watching everyone and talking at lunch.

I guess I am just one of those people that does a lot of things "outside of the box". I do paint myself into a corner now and then, but along the way I often learn a few things that really work well for me.

Marc, thanks for your kind words, you know me and my playing well, and know what I'm talking about. I've heard you play my style blues on your psg, and I know that it was not easy to adjust to the tuning from standard guitar.

I learned to emulate a lot of PSG playing on my regular guitar, but I'd love to try to learn all of my 6 string guitar stuff on PSG, as then I would truely have the best of both worlds.

Thanks again for understanding the original intention of my post.

Fred

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