Taking them off 10 OR 12 ?

David LeBlanc · From: New Brunswick, Canada

I just got a 12 string MSA and I was thingking of taking the first and last sting off.I would then put the standard EMMONS set up starting at the secound place. My friend, a real good player who teaches me sometimes, says i`ll get used to it.But he plays a D10 show-bud and can`t show me anything for the last two string`s . I can`t afford another one .I also find that i can`t see the fret`s on the last string anyway. Any thoughts Confused

We just put the pedal`s back to ABC, as the previous owner play`ed the DAY set up. Open to all thoughts. Rolling Eyes

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

There would probably be a lot less labor involved in just removing strings 11 and 12.

David LeBlanc · From: New Brunswick, Canada

I was thinking of trying that first. But just wondering if it would be worth the effort.Thanks for the reply Lee Smile

Scott Howard · From: Georgetown, TN, USA

If you remove string 1 and 12 you will have to move every pull on the guitar up one string. That is provided you have a normal 12 string E 9th set up with F# on the 1 st string. This is a major job. Just remove the lower 2 strings is easier by far.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Lotta guys would love to have a 12. Trade it even up for a 10, and you'll both be happy.

Carl Heatley · From: Morehead City,NC

I just took off strings 11 and 12 on my Rus-Ler Works fine for me.

David Doggett · Posted 6 Jan 2008 6:48 pm

Seems a shame to waste that 12-string. If you really don't want 12 strings, why don't you go to the buy-and-sale section and try to trade with someone who wants to move from 10-string to 12-string?

If you keep it, seems like you should leave all the strings on there tuned to extended E9, and just ignore the bottom two. Later, after you are comfortable with the top 10, you may find some things to do with the bottom two. They are not very useful for traditional E9 country, but are very useful for jazz, blues, rock, and classical.

If you must take two strings off, take off the bottom two. If you take off the outside two, you will have to shift the entire copedent over a string, a pretty big task. Then, if you decide to sell it later, you will have to move everything back to make it a conventional 12-string. If you remove the bottom two, all you have to do later to sell it is to put those two strings back on.

The thing about not being able to see the frets on the top string is a non-issue. It's that way with all steel guitars that are strung properly with no strings missing.

David LeBlanc · From: New Brunswick, Canada

Thanks for all youre replies. If I wasn`t so far away,I`d probably try to trade both my MSA and my old LINKON D12 for a SHO-BUD LDG or something familiar s10,but the shipping would be a killer.I`ll start off by taking out the last two string`s.Thank`s to all. Smile

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I say leave them on and learn to use them.
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Scott Howard · From: Georgetown, TN, USA

I guess I should have been more clear as I agree with the rest and would just leave them on,but in answering your question it is easier by far to just remove the lower 2. If the one helping you is playing a standard 10 string just ignore the bottom 2 and work with the top 10 strings. It should work and you will find uses for the lower strings.

Carl Heatley · From: Morehead City,NC

Whats the most common tuneing for the strings 11 and
12...any raises/lowers???? (standard E9)

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I borrowed a S-12 from Sierra for a few weeks (many years back).

I put some pattern dye (blue) on strings 11 ad 12. It was easier to see the old 10 string pattern (all silver strings), with which I was more familiar, as well as, utilize the extended range strings.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

If it's currently set up universal, you could put an Extended E9 copedent on it. For example, one of these:

http://b0b.com/tunings/ebovine.html

Then strings 1-10 are exactly the same as the standard E9 copedent, and you have two lower strings that you can grow into. You don't have to play them, but they're there if you want them in the future. I can't see any reason to take off strings if you go this way - especially if you are just starting out, you'll get used to whatever you learn now.

Of course, myself, I would leave it as a universal if it's already that way.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I play extended E9th too. There are lots of uses for the low G# and E strings. You really only need one pedal change on the low strings (G# to A on your 2nd pedal).

The low strings of extended E9th are very logical. They are the same as the higher strings, just an octave lower. It doesn't take long to get used to them.
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Ronnie Boettcher · From: Brunswick Ohio, USA

I fully agree with Mike. Just leave the strings on there. What is the difference if they are on or off. And I also agree with the suggestions of trading someone for a 10 string. Why have something you don't want, and someone else might be tickled to have a 12. Good luck
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

David LeBlanc · From: New Brunswick, Canada

Thank-you all for youre good ideas. Like I said I`m fairly new (2-3 years), and on my old LINKON I just took out the two lower strings and moved the plastic fret board and it was OK,but I thought this being a better (newer) steel I put it like a 10 string. I told my wife "This is the last one I`ll owne" but if I don`t get use to it we`ll see Winking

Once again thank you all.

Pat Carlson · From: Sutton, Nebraska, R.I.P.

Why don't you use the the E and F lever to Lower and raise string 12 the bottom E just like 4 and 8?
I have been hacking around on a 12 stringer lately.
Seems to me these changes would be useful.
I do have the pull on string 11 B pedal raising G# to A.
I sure would like to have the F lever on 12 raising the E to F
IS This a bad idea?????? Confused

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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

William Fraser · From: New York, USA

AFTER READING,HOW T BRUMLEY ADDED A LOW E FOR 11 STRINGS, I UNDER STOOD, & WOULDN'T MIND HAVING THAT AVAILABLE TO ME,THE STORY IS IN JAN 1980 STEEL GUITARIST MAG. BILL
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Glyn Bone · From: Halifax.Nova Scotia. Canada * R.I.P.

Hi there David.....if you really want to change guitars I have a black Carter SD10 4 x 5 (PF in pos.0 )..in excellent condition .I would love to have an MSA 12 U....not far between New Brunswick and Nova Scotia if you`re interested Smile

Just a thought for ya mon ami . Smile

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Carl Heatley · From: Morehead City,NC

Well...If anybody is looking for a 12 string,I may be interested in trading my Russ-ler for a MSA or
sho bud S10/D10 or similar.
I'll also list it under Instruments for sale.

David Doggett · Posted 8 Jan 2008 7:07 am

David, if you really only want 10 strings, you should seriously consider Glyn's offer for a trade. You've got a little more guitar than he does, so maybe he could pay your shipping costs to even things up and make it worth your while to ship. But actually you never said whether your 12-string is an extended E9, with 3 pedals, or a universal, with 6 or more pedals.

If you decide to keep yours, and you only want 10 strings, you are probably better off taking off the two lower strings, or tuning them as extended E9 (11th string low G#, 12th string low E). I am a universal advocate, but not necessarily for those who really only want 10 strings, which is very adequate for traditional country. A universal tuning would be a much bigger shift for you, and we don't know if your guitar has all the pedals and levers you would need.

As for putting changes on the low strings, for ext. E9, I don't see why one wouldn't want to put the same changes on them as the strings an octave above, or alternatively, something like b0b describes. If you don't put pedals or levers on them, you are missing half the fun. However, on a universal one would not want to put the E lower on the low E. One gets the C6 equivalent of B6 tuning by activating the E-lower lever. But if it also lowers the low E, that looses the low 4th and basically destroys the root of the E M7, 9 tuning that is the equivalent of the essential F M7,9 part of the C6 tuning.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

DD, just to elaborate: I'm not a U-12 player, but I've been playing extended E9th for 30 years. I find that in 90% of my low string playing, I only need one change down there (G# to A). I have two lowers on my E string (to D and C#) that I use for power chords and not much else. I removed the F lever lower (to C#) for a few months once because I needed the parts for something, and I barely missed it.

Yes, adding changes is part of the fun once you understand the tuning. My point is that, for a beginner like David, the low strings don't have to be intimidating. There's hardly anything to "learn" about them that isn't just a low octave of what you learn on the higher strings.

The biggest plus is having a low root tone A on the 11th string to hook your thumb on when the pedals are down. That's the single most important aspect of the extended E9th when playing country steel, IMHO.
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David LeBlanc · From: New Brunswick, Canada

Thank you all for youre coments.David D ,I have a Black MSA S 12 classic 4 Knees-5 Pedals,standard EMONS tuning . Nothing on pedal 4 and 5 yet.Glyn I`m gonna give it a try without the lower strings first and see.If by chance you come to moncton let me know . Smile

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