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Topic: Buck Owens tuning down. Why? |
Mike Winter
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 3:55 pm |
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| Buck tuned down in the studio....does anyone know why? I also read somewhere that he mixed his records to sound good out of a car radio speaker. Has anyone heard that? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 4:14 pm
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The few people I know tune down because it's easier for them to play certain chords in the open position instead of barred positions. Say the singer sings a song in Eb and simply can not sing it effectively by transposing up to E or down to D, they will just tune down 1/2 step (or use a capo, but some feel embarassed by using capos).
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Tay Joslin
From:
Clarksvillle, Tennessee USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 4:22 pm
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Mike,
I have heard this same story a few times, but I think it would be best told to you by Mr. Jerry Brightman; his website is www.slidestation.com , and he has always welcomed my questions. He played with Buck during the 1970s, and he is real easy to talk to. Also, Mr. Tom Brumley has a lot of great stories, but I do not know of a website for him. I hope this information helps you.
Here is what I have been told: tuning down made it easier for the vocal harmonies to be mixed because Don Rich did not always sing harmony on the studio cuts as he did on stage (little known fact); Buck would often harmonize with himself, and his voice was a little lower in range than Don's.
As far as sounding great from the radio or a car speaker, Buck was determined to provide a great sound to all of his fans whether they be listening to him on stage or on vinyl. He liked to use small speakers in the studio when recording so that it would result in a sharp, twangy sound when you heard it on the radio.
As I mentioned, this information came from conversations with both Mr. Tom Brumley and Mr. Jerry Brightman, both of whom I have a great deal of respect for. I am not an authority on this subject, but I hope this answers your questions.
Tay Joslin
Memphis, Tennessee
U.S.A. |
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Jerry Brightman
From:
Ohio
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 6:00 pm
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Tay,
You are correct with your facts. The only things I can add is a story Doyle Holly told me a couple of years ago when I asked him about tuning. He laughed and said they used a Conn strobe tuner, and since no one knew how to calibrate it, it was set to Eb, instead of E. In the studio, Buck would always play with the vary-speed on the 1/4" master/mix tape to get something he was looking for. This would drive many players, including us crazy sometimes and why songs changed reference pitch from one song to the next on an album. He did use a set of small speakers because he targeted his mix's for AM radio. With todayβs fidelity, it is why many of those records sound heavy on the high end. Limiters and stay-levels that radio stations used at the time did weird things to records and this was Buck's opinion of how he wanted the record to sound on the radio compensating for that equipment.
Jerry
www.slidestation.com |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 7:38 pm
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That's what I always heard,Back in the early days the recordings were mixed to sound good on AM stations,and most home and autos had SMALL speakers instead of the overkill systems of today.DYKBC.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 7:50 pm
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| Jerry Brightman wrote: |
Tay,
Limiters and stay-levels that radio stations used at the time did weird things to records and this was Buck's opinion of how he wanted the record to sound on the radio compensating for that equipment.
Jerry
www.slidestation.com |
Hey Jerry.
I dug a bunch of those old Gates Sta-Levels out of some radio stations a few years ago. Sold them for big bucks. They do have a strange sound to them, but isn't it funny how anything from the 50s and 60s with a vacumn tube in it is so mystical to recordists.
For those that don't know what a Sta Level is, it is a compression device that is put in the chain in front of the limiter. When the announcer comes on to speak, his voice causes the Sta Level to knock down the music level without him having to actually turn a knob. Then when he stops talking the Sta Level brings the music back up. Both remain at the same level. The compression factor before the signal hits the transmitter was very important as you could really heat up the signal for max output at the tower.
AM radio days.....they were magic even though there were no highs the bass sure sounded nice. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 29 Dec 2007 8:02 pm Re: Buck Owens tuning down. Why?
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| Mike Winter wrote: |
| Buck tuned down in the studio....does anyone know why? I also read somewhere that he mixed his records to sound good out of a car radio speaker. Has anyone heard that? |
Yes, Buck tuned down to make his songs easier to sing.
And yes. Back in the '60s, most listening was done on car radios and small transistor radios, so most songs were mixed to sound good on those types of recievers. Today's cars often have multi-hundred watt systems, and many more people have fancy multiple-speaker sound systems at home, or they're listening through headphones, all of which deliver more low-end to the listener. Therefore, there's a much greater emphasis in recordings these days on the bass part of the spectrum. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 5:14 am
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| One of the other reasons is that third strings lasted longer on a Fender 1000 without breaking. |
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Mike Winter
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 10:36 am
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Thanks guys...that's what I always understood, but wanted some clarification. This Forum is the best! Thanks to b0b and Happy New Year to everyone. Be safe.  |
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Al Udeen
From:
maple grove mn usa
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Posted 7 Jan 2008 10:47 pm Before Chromatics
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| Craig! Back then the high string was the first string |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2008 5:59 am
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| I forgot there were only 8 strings. Still wasn't that one of the reasons for tuning down? I saw a clip of Buck doing Together Again the other day and it looked like Tom was playing an 8 string guitar. Were my eyes right? |
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Al Udeen
From:
maple grove mn usa
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Posted 8 Jan 2008 8:11 am tuning down
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| Tom started with Buck a few years after 10 strings were being used by almost all players [1963] I was with Tom in 66 backstage at the Mpls auditorium & he & I were talking about the string breakage problem, He & Bucks band were tuned to Eflat open, Tom was playing the Fender 1000 which I'm sure he used on the record of Together Again, Tom broke a 3rd string while playing & jokingly said, "Thats what I get for talking about breaking that string" I've always assumed that Bucks band tuned down to accomadate the need of the steel being tuned down a half step? |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2008 8:46 am
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| That's what I always thought too, Al. |
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 8 Jan 2008 9:34 am
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| So did Tom play a Fender on the original recording of Together Again or was it a ZB guitar? Anyone know for absolute certain? |
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 8 Jan 2008 11:47 am
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| Okay, I found out that he did indeed use a Fender on that recording. It's an interesting story. The Fender guitar that he used was in the Capitol recording studio and in terrible shape and Tom and Don Rich had to spend the entire day fixing it up for the recording session. This subject has been covered on other threads so sorry for any topic drift here. |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 8 Jan 2008 8:07 pm
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The 'Sta-Level' is commonly known as a "ducker",
because it makes the program duck under the announcer.
I have used the same effect on rythmn guitars
and lead vocals, just a touch.
When the singer sings, the guitar lowers a db or 2,
giving it a cleaner space, yet not changing the
over-all level of a mix to make the vocal stay out front.
Many limiter plug in's still have this feature.
No doubt all of Merles cuts were played through
smaller cheap speakers, as well as bigger full range systems.
It was SOP back in those days, and should still be now,
even if most, current, carry around systems
sound pretty good in comparision to those days.
If it cuts through on a japanese, hand held,
AA battery powered, 2" speaker radio on the beach blanket,
AND sounds full on the studio monitors,
then EVERYBODY can enjoy the songs.
But mixes were never done to interact with a Sta-Levels,
since it's job was to make the track drop
ONLY while the announcer talked.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.
Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many! |
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Howard Tate
From:
Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 9 Jan 2008 7:10 am
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| I spent a day at Capital in 72 or 73 while they were mixing "Honky Tonk Night Time Man", and one other Hag song (I can't remember the name). The engineer's name was Hugh, last name unknown. He mixed through the large studio speakers but had a switch to change to a small single speaker occasionally to check his mix. The final mix was in the small speaker. |
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Kent Thompson
From:
Wilson, OK
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Posted 11 Jan 2008 7:09 pm
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This is great. I am newly registered here on the forum and we're talking about my favorite subject,Buck Owens!
I had been told some time back that Buck tuned down so it would be harder to replicate his sound.But WOW what a superb sound he had.Don,Doyle,Tom,and Willie. |
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Jay Fagerlie
From:
Lotus, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2008 7:24 am
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I thought I read somewhere that that it wasn't that the highs were boosted in Bucks recordings, but that the bass was reduced to keep the small speakers from farting out.
Jay |
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Peter Dollard
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Posted 14 Jan 2008 9:49 am Odd Keys
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| When I talked to Tom about this in 1996 he said it was just something Buck did for a while and that if you didn't want to be stuck in some odd ball keys you tuned down with him! He did say that when he tuned back to concert E the pedals felt really weird to him for awhile...Peter |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2008 10:43 am
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We have a song that we do in C# because that's where it sounds best. On stage the guitarist uses a capo, but in the studio we opted to retune the guitar simply because it sounded so much better.
I think Buck probably tuned a half step lower for the same reason. He wanted that first position, open chord resonance from the guitars, but his vocal keys didn't match up to the standard D, G, etc.
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