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Topic: Need some rack and barrel Bud pics |
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2007 9:30 am |
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Can someone please post some close up pics of the underside of a Bud (single neck is fine) with a Rack and Barrel set up. Just picked up some parts and want to install them on a Bud project I am working on. Like to see how the leg rods attach and the changer also.
Many thanks. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2007 6:00 pm
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Bill, I don't know if these will help you much, as they're the very first style of racks and barrels, and the racks are turned backasswards!..Whoever welded up the rack assemblies screwed one up and it couldn't be turned in the correct direction. Shobud, being what it was at the time, wouldn't throw away a bad part. They used it anyway, and turned all the racks backwards. Still works the same though.
Another good place to look for pics is the Forum's "Instruments for sale" section, and ebay auctions.
Best,
JB from Performance |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2007 6:05 pm
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| Thanks JB!! |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2007 6:11 pm
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| You're welcome Bill. What's your project? |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Dec 2007 8:21 pm
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To add to what my friend John B. has shown already. Here's a couple different angles.
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2007 8:32 pm
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| Very cool Bill! Having heard you play before, I can't wait to hear you play your new project. My old S-10 is getting a new tuning based on bottleneck low G tuning. Going to be a blues steel. I'm gonna fry some peoples minds at some blues jams, |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2007 8:47 pm
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| James, thanks for chimin' in! Bill is a great player. You know I'm into the older guitars, so i think your advice to Bill will be much better than any I could give him. Merry Christmas! |
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Jon Hyde
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2007 10:38 pm
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this might just be more of the same but what the heck...
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 7:18 am
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| Thank you!! Great pics. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 9:19 am
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| Jon H. that's a VERY clean single-neck you have there!! Whats the topside look like? |
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Steve Alcott
From:
New York, New York, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 9:49 am
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| At the risk of betraying my ignorance, I have the following request: Can someone explain how the rack and barrel system actually works? I've stared at the various pix on SGF and still can't put a picture together in my head of the parts in motion. It's frustrating, as I'm not generally this dense. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 10:37 am
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Steve, It is a very good question. The rack & barrel system is a way to get virtually unlimited changes out of the single raise/single lower changer, common in the old shobuds back in the late '60's early '70's. Basicly, the rod runs through either the raise or the lower hole in the finger, which you will see at the endplate, where you are used to seeing the modern nylon tuners. Typical Shobud is the hex head shafts instead of the nylon.
So the rod will go through every rack as far as you will need them for your copedent. Mind you, every rack is connected to a floor pedal or knee lever. So you can add a barrel where ever you want a pull, and what ever lever you want to use for that pull.
The brass barrels themselves are two part and are threaded. There is a catch spring that stops half the barrel and the barrel begins to thread in or out, as you activate the pedal and turn the hex wrench at the endplate. The catch spring catches on the rack when you activate your lever or pedal, and when you release the pedal, the barrel moves away so the spring does not catch and activate the threads. That's why you can put multiple barrels on the same rod, thus getting multiple changes out of a
single/single changer. The only barrel to meet the rack is the by the pedal you press, the rest of the barrels on that particular pullrod stay "neutral". It's something you really need to see in person, as it works, then you'll fully understand it. It's a really cool system.
Shobud improved on this system, though, upgrading to the "barrels behind two hole pullers" system, early '70's. Works the same way, except the system is quieter and lighter than the rack and barrel system. |
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Steve Alcott
From:
New York, New York, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 10:49 am
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| Thanks, James-I sorta had that part figured out, and you cleared it up for me. The part I can't seem to wrap my head around is how the racks themselves move. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 10:51 am
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| Good explanation James! I was looking for an explanation on the web, I think it was from Winston, but couldn't find it. Today's guitars, instead of using racks, use bellcranks with the pullrods firmly attached to the bellcranks, allowing only one function per pullrod. On the rack and barrel guitars, the pullrod only becomes "attached" to the rack when a pedal or lever is engaged and it comes into contact with the barrel. Thus allowing for fewer pullrods, and many more changes per pullrod. So the rack and barrel guitars have a bit more slop and play, but not that much if they're well-adjusted. And they work just fine, although they may take a bit to get used to. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 11:00 am
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Steve, the racks just pivot on an axle that goes through the mounting brackets. You can see the axle in this blurry pic.
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 11:10 am
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| Just Like John said. The racks pivot just like a modern bellcrank would, except the rod/rods only engage when a pedal is activated, making contact with that particular barrel. So none of the rods are FIXED to the racks at all---the racks move freely, until a lever pulls a particular barrel to the rack, thus engaging the finger. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 11:14 am
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The "rack" is analagous to a 20 hole bellcrank. Like modern bellcranks, rotating the cross-shaft will translate pedal or knee lever rotary motion into linear pull rod motion. Placing barrels behind either the raise or lower holes of any particular string allows you to specify the function of a given pedal or knee lever.
Last edited by Tony Glassman on 26 Dec 2007 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve Alcott
From:
New York, New York, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 11:41 am
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| Eureka!!! Huzzah and Excelsior!!! John's "blurry" picture was exactly what I was looking for. I just couldn't see the axle before. Thanks for clearing it up for me. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 11:53 am
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| I've gotten a new camera Steve! Future pics should be better. That camera was like a .001 megapixel! |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 12:54 pm
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I'm a fan of the rack and barrel setup. I don't think it's any noisier than my p/p, and the action is fast and solid. I think the only drawback is the inability to time the pulls, like you can on a multi holed bellcrank - a 14 hole puller Legrande, for instance.
Being able to add pulls - including compensating, micropulls - by just sliding on another barrel is a big plus. |
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 7:48 pm
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John, tell us more about the blues G tuning. I've also got a S10 rack and barrel Bud. I've been thing about selling it but, that's a hard decision to make.
Tony |
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Jon Hyde
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2007 10:31 pm
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James, here you go... I got this one on Craiglist for a real reasonable price and it was in great shape. I cleaned it from stem to stern and added 3 knees that I got from the great Duane Marrs. the only thing about this guitar is that the lacquer on the front apron is nearly all cracked off. the rest of the guitar looks great. Must have been left in the sun or something. Great guitar though.
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Dec 2007 10:09 am
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Jon, What a cool score!! I bet it's a real tone machine!  |
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