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Topic: ever had a bad musician,in your band. |
Terry Kinnear
From:
Erie ,Pennsylvania
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Posted 16 Dec 2007 6:48 pm |
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ever had a bad musician ,in your band, that played all the time, played too loud , or thought ,they were the greatest thing ,since sliced bread..I had a good fiddle player,that played all the time, worst than that ,he was hard of hearing.then he always put his amp in front of him,that made him louder than the rest of the band.his wife,would always tell him,turn it up,I cant hear you. [she sat in front of his amp.] one time a lady came up and wanted to sing,she said she sounded like pasty cline,and you could not tell them apart,when they sang. she sang one song, it sounded more like red sovine,than pasty cline. TK
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Terry Kinnear [ steel wondering] |
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Larry Strawn
From:
Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.
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Posted 16 Dec 2007 6:59 pm
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Terry,
I think we have all gone through that at some time. 
Larry
_________________
Carter SD/10, 4&5 Hilton Pedal, Peavey Sessions 400, Peavey Renown 400, Home Grown Eff/Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY" |
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Terry Kinnear
From:
Erie ,Pennsylvania
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Posted 16 Dec 2007 7:04 pm
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Well, thats why i drink. one time i kept ,turning down his amp, he took it in to have it repaired . He was not amused.TK
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Terry Kinnear [ steel wondering] |
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Larry Lorows
From:
Zephyrhills,Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2007 7:22 pm
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And it seems to run in the fiddle family. I sure know what you mean. Larry
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U12 Williams keyless 400
Vegas 400, Nashville 112, Line 6 pod xt |
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Dennis Graves
From:
Maryville, Tennessee
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Posted 16 Dec 2007 7:50 pm
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| I think it runs in the bluegrass banjo family....most of them think they are suppose to play wide open from start to finish....I've given it up because of that. Most banjo pickers have no idea of how to play in a real band. |
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Terry Kinnear
From:
Erie ,Pennsylvania
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Posted 16 Dec 2007 7:57 pm
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yea I know what you mean. One time , i went to music jam, and i forgot to lock,my car. i went back out,and there was 3 banjos in my car,man ,was i ever mad.. that wont happen again.TK
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Terry Kinnear [ steel wondering] |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2007 11:10 pm
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Yes Yes And Yes. Thats why I don't play anymore. I will only do benifits or steel shows any more.At least at a steel show you know the musician are good.
I would like to have a good classic country band but there is no interest around my area.
Terry thats funny, In the early 70s I was living in Laramie Wyoming, i did a duo with a guy (Jeff Kimble) who was number 3 in the nation on Banjo. He was beat out be little Wendy Holcomb. It was fun for a while but everything started sounding the same. I like Bluegrass but get tired of it really Fast.
_________________
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Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 2:37 am
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| Larry Strawn wrote: |
Terry,
I think we have all gone through that at some time.
Larry |
Larry's right. It happens to all of us.
I once attempted to work with a bass player, who when I told him that the song went to a 4 chord at a certain point, said something like "Don't lay those technical musician's terms on me. I'm just a country boy. Tell me the letter name."
This band didn't last very long.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 4:21 am
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This is very common in bands where Guitar players have been the only lead Instrument, but lets be clear here, there are some Steel players who do this as well, and yeh, Fiddles and Harmonica's too...whatever...
A great Musician may also be a great Instrumentalist, but a great Instrumentalist may never be a great Musician.
I have been invited to jam with and possibly join a working 4 piece band, I would add Steel, Guitar and possibly Mandolin..I suspect there will be tons of clashing going on with the Guitar player whom I've never even met, An "only" Guitar player in a band plays totally different than if there is another lead Instrument, and it really requires a fine musician to understand the scenario and HEAR whats going on.
The SOLO hogs that I have worked with love me to death as I am the one who will lift...
I did a fill in a month or two back and the Guitar player was all over the place, he was even being recognized for his greatness by the band leader...of course, me being the LIFTER, I really didn't play all that much in the scheme of things..
later in the night the band leader said to me "You need to play more".. I said.."Where" ?
he thought about it for a minute and then...he got it...
Probably worse than a Guitar player who plays solo's all the time is one who plunks with little fills everywhere..leading into chord changes, coming out of changes etc...this to me is more of an issue than the solo's as this is where the Steel is completely eliminated from the song.
I know all this stuff about Guitar Players, I "R" one..and have been for 40 years on the gig...
Playing Steel Guitar in a band is very difficult and really requires a Guitar player who loves Steel and anticipates Steel Guitar fills. If he doesn't it's gonna be a long night. |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 4:36 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Larry Strawn wrote: |
Terry,
I think we have all gone through that at some time.
Larry |
Larry's right. It happens to all of us.
I once attempted to work with a bass player, who when I told him that the song went to a 4 chord at a certain point, said something like "Don't lay those technical musician's terms on me. I'm just a country boy. Tell me the letter name."
This band didn't last very long. |
I've heard that so many times that I started telling 'em that the "letter names" of chords were only invented for those who can't count to 7. |
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 4:40 am
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Tony, I have had the same thing with a guitarist who was a blues player, he joined the band saying that country music was so simple to play.
At the first rehersal every song we done came out with a blues solo from the guitar player.
The singer and I said to him we need a country sound from him,. He replyed give me a song or tune with a country guitar on it and he would go home and copy that sound.
I gave him a copy of Mark O Connor's "Pick it apart" to listen to.
We have not heard from him for a while now......... |
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Roger Kelly
From:
Bristol,Tennessee
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 4:42 am
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I can identify with most of all the comments made so far.....how about the "Lead" player who plays, or trys to play, like a pedal steel all night long?  |
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Jack Francis
From:
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 5:27 am
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I hired a really good friend of mine that had a B-Bender Tele...after about the third song I got off the steel and picked up my Tele...after a few more songs he asked why I wasn't on the steel.
I told him that 2 Teles in a band worked better than 2 steels...he got it finally, and we had a great night.  |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 5:58 am
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ok time for a one up..
with the 7th string raise you can easily imitate a Tele player who is playing Steel Guitar licks ! I worked with my friend Matt for 3 years where he would imitate my licks and then I would imitate his right back at him ! It was great fun..
He was the epitome of a Guitar player for a Steel player, sometimes he would play signature Steel licks ( AJ or George S tunes) on the Tele and I would learn them from him !
How about that ! |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 6:09 am
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| Quote: |
| Most banjo pickers have no idea of how to play in a real band. |
That's a really unfair and cutting comment. There are some banjo players that overdo it, but there are players of every instrument that don't fit in a band setting well for that reason. Categorizing players of one instrument that way is patently false.
As others have said, I've been subjected to the same thing countless times. Drummers, guitarists, bassists, keyboard players - seems there's always one in every band.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Chris Morano
From:
Rowe, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 6:31 am
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| An interesting twist to this question is , have you ever been the bad musician in a band. I can recall many occasions especially as a younger player when I felt I was way over my head, sweating each tune, hoping I wouldn't mess up. It's good to remember those times when a dose of humility is needed. On the other hand I've often thought about moving to a state where killing obnoxious lead guitarists is legal. any suggestions? Another twist is the bass player I once played with who was a monster talent jazz guy playing with us because he needed the cash. He would get bored and start taking it so far out that the bottom would fall out, the drummer would loose time, just a train wreck for his amusement. |
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Charley Wilder
From:
Dover, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 7:27 am
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| Dennis Graves wrote: |
| I think it runs in the bluegrass banjo family....most of them think they are suppose to play wide open from start to finish....I've given it up because of that. Most banjo pickers have no idea of how to play in a real band. |
I traded a Dobro with Norman Blake back in the 70's that was a lot louder than mine. I mentioning our band's loud banjo player and Norman lit into a tirade like I've never heard! "I never knew a banjo who..................." He went on and on. It was funny, he just exploded. Yeah, Dennis we had one of those guys also! Just goin' for it all the time. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 7:59 am
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well ok then, I was one of two, a bad musician and/or a liar , probably both.
When I got a call to play in a Country band for the very first time back in the early 70's , I couldn't A: Play Steel, B: Play Country Guitar. But I told them I could do both..
It took about 3 or 4 songs into the 1st set for my total lack of skill at anything to totally reveal itself .
I was a Rock and Roll / Blues Guitar player who owned a Maverick Steel for about 3 months, how hard could this be ? I knew who Merle Haggard was...I mean come on already...I figured out the I,IV,V positions on the Steel so I was ready.
NOT
I got fired the next night, they struggled thru my inexperience for the weekend, I'm sure it was a real bust for them.
ok you Ct. guys heres a few names from yesteryear...
After ego came back down to earth and I hooked up with another local guy, Fred Roos, he needed a warm body, mine was warm and I happen to have a Sho-Bud ( D10 PRO III now) and a Tele. Fred and I worked together for years and pretty much are still friends today . I was pretty crummy early on to say the least but I was gettin' there. It's amazing what 3 nights a week will do to you.
The good news is that about 2 years later I worked with those first guys again and did so on and off for about a decade.
I learned an amazing amount of Music from those older guys and also learned how to apply what I knew to the Country Music format. Fred Roos, Jack Dwan and Kenny Erikson, they were probably 25 years older than me and certainly had much more wisdom and experience, but they all shared.
The most valuable lesson I got from them was how to be a valuable MUSICIAN as part of the whole band.
Fred used to say stuff like..Don't you worry about your Guitar solo's, I'll make sure the words to the song don't interfere !
We all picked up this stuff somewhere from someone...thats where my Country roots came from.
tp |
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Larry Strawn
From:
Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 9:26 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
Fred used to say stuff like..Don't you worry about your Guitar solo's, I'll make sure the words to the song don't interfere !
tp |
I like that!
There's a lesson it that sentence for sure!!
Larry
_________________
Carter SD/10, 4&5 Hilton Pedal, Peavey Sessions 400, Peavey Renown 400, Home Grown Eff/Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY" |
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Olaf van Roggen
From:
The Netherlands
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 9:45 am
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I remember going with a good steel player friend to a gig he had to do with a band he never played with.
It was a existing band i guess who hired steel players on occasion.
My friend didn't know what to expect and the guitar player came to him and asked with whom he played.
The guy complained that they don't make country music anymore like when he was younger and played the Louisiana Hayride and named all the "famous people" he played with....quite impressing I thought.
When they started to play,the guy played out of tune,off the beat and constantly interrupting the steel solo's.
I didn't know what I heard,and didn't know if I had to laugh or to cry.....
Worst of all he smiled and looked pride when f.##.d up song again.
The drummer was terrible,and tried to sing some songs,all off key.
My poor steel playing friend was experienced enough to stay calm and did what he had to do.
Besides that, it was a terrible drive in nowhereland,Texas where they guys in the club looked all like the Bad Guys in the "A-team" series,and some of them looked like they played in"Deliverance".
My friend is on the forum and I am not mentioning his name,don't know if he wants it....
He felt bad for me.....but thinking about it again,It was fun to see. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 10:19 am
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In my younger days[back when the dodo birds were chicks]I was one of these pickers that did'nt know when to play and when NOT to play,But thankfully some of the old timers set me straight in a hurry.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 10:23 am
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| Quote: |
| ever had a bad musician,in your band. |
Sure - hasn't everybody? But you guys are a tough crowd. 
Sometimes that was me, and I'll bet if most of us are honest with ourselves, there were times it was us.
Example: When I first started playing PSG several years back, a band I knew needed a steel player badly, and I had just picked one up. I crammed as much as I could figure out in the woodshed for a few weeks and they said, "OK, you've been messing with this long enough, bring it down and play tonight.", which I did. It was cold-turkey with no charts, but at least I was an experienced guitarist and I brought my B-Bender Tele along to use when I got lost. I wound up using the steel on, perhaps, half the tunes, filling in with the Tele when necessary. Believe it or not, they were OK with it, but I'm sure glad there was nobody recording.
FWIW, I worked hard at it for several months, and got to the point where I didn't stink too bad, in the context of what we were trying to do. After a couple of years, that band went on hiatus while the leader went on tour with jam band The Recipe, but that is again now my main band now that he's back. They were very patient, and I listened carefully and tried to stay within my limits and not stink things up.
Everybody has to start somewhere. I think it is a poor idea to wait until you're a great player to start playing out. Especially when learning, I think it's a good idea to play with people that are better than you, and reach for their bar. Are you guys telling me you just stepped into your first gig and blew everybody away?
I do agree on the issue of overplaying - especially the "two steel players" comment. But it is very unfair to single out any particular instrument. There are overbearing players on any instrument, including steel. In fact, I've probably been guilty myself at times. Stones and glass houses, eh?
All my opinions, of course. |
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Charley Wilder
From:
Dover, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 11:56 am
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| Yes, Dave, I was also in my first Country band. When I switched from Dobro to steel to play Country I was pretty shaky. I really wasn't all that great on Dobro to begin with. I was the worst musician in the band for sure. But the singer was pretty tolerant and I did know enough to play sparingly. But most singers wouldn't have put up with me at that stage. |
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Mike Archer
From:
church hill tn
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 12:32 pm players
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well I sit on both sides of the fence
here........being a lead player and a steel player
the way I have always handled players who
over play is jusy tell um point blank
in a nice way hey dont step on me playing dude
im very lucky in that most all the players
ive played with are pros they dont over play
at all
eyeball contact works wonders also
as well as knowing your parts well
most of your better players already know this
and if all else fails LET UM GO HOME |
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Terry Kinnear
From:
Erie ,Pennsylvania
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Posted 17 Dec 2007 2:44 pm
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Well , Im not saying ,this guy is a bad musician, in fact he is pretty good on the fiddle. His problem was he ,is hard of hearing, then ,he and my drummer had a falling out, and he quit.[The fiddle player is really,that we have now.] It usally works it self out. Tk
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Terry Kinnear [ steel wondering] |
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