It's In your Hands

Ray Kedge · From: Middlesex, England

Let me know if this has been discussed in the past.
Over the years I have met players who bought a specific brand of guitar believing that it is the guitar that will make them sound like a certain player ie Emmons or Franklin, but when you listen those players they sound the same on any instrument they play.John Hughey sounded just as magical on a Zum as he did on an Emmons.
The tone is in there hands,what made you decide on a certain brand of guitar and now with replacement pick ups does it matter?
Just a thought.

Robert Harper · From: Alabama, USA

Cost is the premier reason. I know a car doesn't make me who I am, nor a house nor the finest guitar.
_________________
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous

Dale Hansen · From: Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)

I think you're right Ray. I was just listening to a fellow Forumite, Charlie Whitten, playing a Sho-Bud Pro II with the Judds. (link below) It sounds just like Sonny's push-pull on the records. Charlie, like myself, just recently bought a GFI, and sounds great on it too.
I used to be a push-pull player, and don't miss it as far as the sound. I can still get the 80's "Garrish" tone I like with the GFI.
I missed out on the welcome thread Ray, good to have you aboard.

Another Forum member posted this link in the web section. It's great.
http://countrymusic.wolfgangsvault.com/

Ray Kedge · From: Middlesex, England

I remember buying an LDG when Lloyd was on every record that came out, trying to get that beautiful mellow tone he produced on Don Williams cuts and never really comming close, seeing clips of him later again on a Zum and the tone was identical.
Do the replacement pick ups on the market now get closr to the tone produced by the masters of the instrument, without the technique they have.
I hope not, otherwise we have nothing to aim for. Feel free to reply.

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Hi Ray, I totally believe that it's in the hands to a certain extent. Same to us lesser mortals as to the greats of the instrument. Bobbe Seymore really stresses that and I believe him. Years ago when I had an Emmons on loan from Eric Snowball whilst I waited for my new ZB to arrive, I had it set up for my Bass player Malcolm Read (now deceased) and Neil McDonald our lead man to scrutinise the tone just before we left for a gig......their verdict "It sounds just like your other one" .....which was a Denley Very Happy

....so there we go Smile

Never the less we still buy new guitars for the "feel" and appearance!!

Micky Byrne Not too far from you Wink

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I believe it's the player that makes the most difference. We all look for a certain sound regardless of the guitar brand. So many choices, most good ones, amps, and effects added and a player has his hands full trying to zero in on a particular tone, etc.

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

Ray - if you look on the old Forum, Reece Anderson posted a thread about tone/hands and it generated a large response.

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

Years ago I was checking into switching from a double to a universal. I borrowed Reece's personal guitar. I took it home and plugged it into an amp just like his and set the controls just like he did........guess what........it sounded just like me! Since then I have looked for durability, distance to factory, price and ease of changing pedal system.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Perhaps the neatest comment I've heard along these lines recently is that Jimmy Day sometimes used an effects unit...

He used it to prop his amp at an angle....

Oh if I only had those hands.....

richard burton · From: Britain

I think the tone is not only in our hands, it's in our heads as well.

Whenever I play a steel, any steel, I adjust the amp until I get the sound that pleases me.

I've had one or two steels that have refused to yield that sound, they came close, but no cigar, so they have gone on to pastures new, hmmm... maybe the instrument does have an influence after all.

Steve Gorman · From: Gilroy California

There is that old quote about how using the same pick up as (Emmons, Green, Hughey,etc) won't make you sound anymore like them than using Frank Sinatra's mic will make you sound like HIM.

As Billy said, we are all "looking" for our sound when we sit down to play. What sounds right to my ears will sound a little different to someone else.

I like Jimmy Day's creative use of effects! Personally, I am looking for a wrong note filter.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Richard - that's twice today that I agree with you (see the 'Chinese Water Torture' thread).

In my thirty+ years of playing I've had ZBs, Sho-Buds, an MCI, a Zum, and now I have two Emmons LG111s.

I've recorded with most of these, and I can truthfully say that I can't detect any difference when I listen to the various tracks - it's all 'me'.

When I get a new guitar I just tweak everything until it sounds like I think it should, then I'm happy. The only steel I've had that wouldn't co-operate was a new D10 Zumsteel. I had it six weeks.

RR

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Tone is in the equipment and not in the hands. Hughey sounded different on his Zum than on his Emmons. Emmons sounded different on his Sierra than on his Blade. A ZB sounds totally different than an Emmons. Some people don't have the hearing capacity to tell the difference. These are the players with bad tone usually. Hands have very little to do with it. An Evans amp does not sound like a Peavey and no amount of knob twisting will change that fact.

Pete Finney · From: Nashville Tn.

Moon in Alaska · From: Kasilof, Alaska * R.I.P.

I would add to this thread...a lot of it is in the hands, both left and right hand !!
I basically think it is mostly "in the player" !!LOL
Buddy and John Hughey are very recognizable on any instrument they play...Of course, ther are difference in instruments...My old Fender 400 sound a lot different than my Carter S-10, but both sound good to me in a different way....
Moon
_________________
<<Moon>>
==Carter S-10==
1962 Fender 400
== Evans FET 500 Custom LV ==

http://www.geocities.com/moon9999610/alaska.html

Reece Anderson · From: Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.

I've never seen or heard of anyone who could consistently identify a distinctive inherent tone/sound of any major brand of steel guitar when they were compared with other major brands while using the same tuning, same amp, and similar parameters....AND....not being able to see which one was being played".

If there is someone who believes they can, I would love to be there to see it, and if so, I would be the first to congratulate them.

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

Hi Reece and others.I believe much of it is in the hands,and the reason is,back in the 50s i was playing mostly fiddle with another fiddle player.Twin fiddles in Lubbock Tx.I also doubled on a D 8 Fender Mastertone i believe the fender was called.I had recently bought a 6 or 8 string Multichord which was a piece of junk.
I wanted to see what the pedals did.Ray Price came in after a show he had done with Ernest Tubb i believe it was.Any ways i had the multi chord set up next to me behind the fender.When the band would do a 3 chord country song i would get on the multi chord.About all i knew was the Slowley pedal lick so i would push it where i could fit it in.
Buddy Emmons and Jimmy Day were there also.I really didn't know who they were at the time.But they both set in on the multi chord.I don't remember who set in first.
To try and shorten this i got back on the fiddle.BE and JD were having a blast on the old multi chord.I could not believe they got the tone out of that thing they did and didn"t re adjust the amp.
I almost gave up steel right then.ha.But i stayed at it and later Bob White who played for Hank Thompsom came in with some of Hanks band.and Hank wasn't there.Bob showed me how he did some of those great endings and a few chords on the C 6th neck.The next day i drove over to Amarillo and bought a Fender 1000 and never looked back.I had some great steelers show me things that would have taken years to figure all that out if ever.
I passed on much of what i had been taught at no charge of course.
There were some hot steel players in Tx.and i concider my self so fortunate to have been helped by them.Sorry this is so long.One more thing a great none pedal steel player by the name of Chuck Caldwell helped me.I was playing fiddle at the old southern club in Lawton Ok.He told me to not worry so much about licks but learn the neck and strings so you will know what they will sound like before you play them.Tracy

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

Bo Legg · Posted 15 Dec 2007 5:09 am

I have 3 D-10 Sho-Buds and one D-10 Sierra and they all sound different and I play each one different.
I tend to play different on every Pedal Steel I play. Every Steel seems to have its own character. Some steels tend to have a hard sound kind of like a Les Paul and on those I can't help but play hard with with a lot of attack and my playing turns kind of bluesy. Some steels are more treble and sustain and on these I tend to play every song like it was "Look at Use". Some steels have a fat sound and I just can't help getting into a swing mood and etc. I sit down at a steel that has no character and I can't play. So I suppose it's the mood that the steel invokes and not the tone or maybe they are one and the same.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Jim

To be fair to Ray (hi, Ray - nice to see you on the Forum!) he is a new member. Ray - don't worry. If people didn't breathe new life into the same old topics, the Forum wouldn't need all the band-width that it has. You're very welcome here.

Thanks, Reece, for the Voice of Reason.

Kevin:

It's not for me to say how good or bad my tone is, but I could hear sufficiently well to know that I wasn't going to get 'it' from the Zum. I can't explain it, other than to say that it lacked the warmth that I like to hear.

Good or bad, the tone is in the hands. Having said that, I think I sound the same on different guitars because I make an effort to do so. I may be misguided in what I'm pursuing, but I like it.

I'm an indifferent player, but surely even the masters have a ball-park sonic area outside which they're not happy?

RR

Ray Kedge · From: Middlesex, England

Hi Roger,Worry, not a bit, Iv'e been in the game too long, people have their own views on topics and I respect that .But there is no way that I can agree with Kevin on this thread.
I cannot believe that how you attack the strings or use vibrato have no bearing on the tone you create no matter what the instument.
Hope you got royalties from the Freddie Star Show.

RK

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

I went to hear a friend play last night. He has a new steel........he was offered so much for the one he had for years that he could not turn it down. He does not like the new one. He says it does not sound the same. I listened very carefully and he sounded the same to me. ?????????????????
I told him so too!

Carl Williams · From: Oklahoma

Okay, you've got me there, in the pic below, it's truly in the "hand" as far as Fine Tuning goes Laughing

"Kevin get ready to catch some more Flaming Arrows! You'll do anything to stay warm up there won't you..." Just teasing Smile

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

An old guitar player friend of mine who played with several big names said he was playing with another guitar great, and when this player set the guitar down to take a break, my friend picked up the guitar and could not come close to making it have the tone the other guy did. He was convinced that the tone is in the hands of the player.
_________________
Al

My equipment:

One heck of a Wife
The ghost of a red Doberman
Several pairs of reading glasses strewn about

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