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Topic: No Smoking Policy - What a relief !!! |
Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 4:39 am |
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Here in England we have a no smoking policy in public places. It is now an offence to smoke in any public premises. After many many years of passive smoking and going home in clothes that reek of cigarette smoke, it is now a real pleasure to gig in a smoke-free environment. My instruments will no longer have to be cleaned to get rid of the nicotine film that always seems to coat them.
I am not anti smoking by any stretch of the imagination, but the difference now is amazing. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 4:56 am
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I'm on the fence on this, I don't smoke and I really prefer to NOT be around smokers but I am not sure I want it to be illegal( Govt. control) for them to Smoke if I go into a Bar...where there is MUSIC and Alcohol, and yes..perhaps Smoking going on.
"You can't smoke but you can drink a quart of Jack Daniels and go out and drive home drunk"
Two of my current band mates smoke and I hate it..I don't hang with them on breaks and they know why...I tell them they smell like S...(not smoke)
One thing I will not do anymore is PLAY on stage with someone smoking while we are playing. I draw the line there. It's as simple as that. I will leave the stage, if they want to fire me ..no big deal...
I do tell folks who call for sit in gigs about this up front...generally they all agree.
tp |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 6:56 am
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| I haven't played in clubs in years and almost never go as well. I would welcome the change. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 7:01 am
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| Quote: |
| "You can't smoke but you can drink a quart of Jack Daniels and go out and drive home drunk" |
We're talking about legality here. Driving drunk is not legal, and it's enforced pretty rigidly most places these days. You can't do it with impunity anymore.
I am against allowing toxic levels of smoke to build up in any enclosed public space, especially one that is a workspace. This should be no more tolerated than allowing chemical factories to poison their workers by not ventilating their workspaces. That went out decades ago, and we're long overdue here.
So this could be handled by either proper, levels-monitored ventilation or no-smoking rules, as far as I'm concerned. I also am not anti-smoker, but I don't want to continue to breath their smoke. For me it's a matter of survival. I only rarely play clubs that allow smoking now, and almost never patronize one. It means that I can't make a living playing around here anymore, and that is not right - but I recognize the reality.
I don't like much government control either, but they control all this stuff now, including liquor and tobacco, and all the associated licensing and taxes. When there's money to be made, you can believe the government will step in and control. IMO, that issue is a red herring.
But this is an extremely divisive issue here, and a complete dead horse. I honestly doubt anybody will change even one mind.
All IMHO, of course. |
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Ron Page
From:
Penn Yan, NY USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 7:09 am
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The State of Ohio did this about a year ago. As a non-smoker, I enjoy not having smoke in restaurants and barrooms, but I'm opposed to a law that tells a club owner that they cannot allow smoking.
Let's not confuse "public places" with "places owned by the public". These bans are being applied broadly to anyplace "the public" visits. In extreme cases they've even applied them to condominiums or apartments that share a common wall or ceiling/floor partition.
The (US) Federal Government and most States are trying to have it both ways. They want to regulate and sell smokes, tax them, misallocate these tobacco setlement dollars and then make laws against using the product. Just like many states' fireworks laws where you can buy them here but you have to take them out-of-state to explode them.
I can see the position that it's a workplace safety issue, but I think most all employees have other options -- plenty of non-smoking establishments they can choose to work at.
_________________
HagFan
Emmons Lashley LeGrande II |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 7:17 am
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| Quote: |
| I can see the position that it's a workplace safety issue, but I think most all employees have other options -- plenty of non-smoking establishments they can choose to work at. |
For a musician playing the kind of music I play, there are very few alternatives. Up until the last year, there were NO local alternatives - there was not a single non-smoking club in this entire area.
Around here, if you're a working musician in this area playing anything like the kind of stuff most of us play, and want to play more than very occasionally, you have to be willing to play in smoke. This is one of the important reasons I gave up being what most of y'all consider a "professional" musician.
Try going to a bank, store, office, or other workplace and light up a smoke. They will escort you out the door with police if you refuse to stop.
| Quote: |
| Let's not confuse "public places" with "places owned by the public". These bans are being applied broadly to anyplace "the public" visits. In extreme cases they've even applied them to condominiums or apartments that share a common wall or ceiling/floor partition. |
A restaurant/bar with a liquor license is indeed a public place - by law, the only places one can publically consume alcohol. But I agree that this concept can be taken to extremes, and I disagree with that. |
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John Steele
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 9:11 am
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| Quote: |
it is now a real pleasure to gig in a smoke-free environment.
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I hope you enjoy that short window of opportunity for gigging before the club shuts down next year.
Here, the club scene is pretty well dead. In addition to a province-wide smoking ban, now Madd Mothers Against Everything are trying to change .08 to Zero Tolerance to make sure you don't have a beer with your co-workers after work, or have a glass of wine with dinner. The clubs are gone.
What a pleasure it is, not only because of the smoke free environment, but because of the many other perks. No longer do I have to constantly tear down and set up my rig. No more hauling equipment into venues. No more negotiating with club owners, or dealing with drunks or with the other personalities in the band.
It's complete freedom.... just me and my band-in-a-friggin-box program, sitting in the living room, with no gig.
Hooray.
-John |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 9:17 am
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I do not disagree at all about drinking and driving, and it is against the law to do it and rightfully so. The problem is you gotta get caught to get arrested.
A smoker may not even drink and they can violate the law just for lighting up..and maybe get fined...I guess...
theres something wrong here in Kansas Toto...
I'm probably one of the last on the fence but the way I see it is that if I go somewhere , and I am talking BARS, not eateries with families, and someone is sittin' at the Bar drinking a Beer Smokin' a Camel, I see it as me invading HIS space. I don't have the answer but the way I see it is if the Bar Owner is ok with it he should be able to sit and drink his Beer and have a smoke and I have the right to leave if I don't like it.
IF smoking is so bad, and I believe it's pretty bad as well, shut it down everywhere.
oh wait..Taxes are collected on the Sale...I forgot...
I don't have an answer but I know having the Govt get involved is NOT an answer either.
Why do we have Smoking sections in Restaurants but not in other places ? |
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David Langdon
From:
West Bridgford, Nottingham Notts, United Kingdom
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 9:31 am
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At first I was all for it here in the UK, but there are a couple of local venues here that have died since the ban, and it looks like the music will stop.
So that's two more regular jobs we'll be losing.
So what seemed like a good thing has a downside too. |
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Kevin Mincke
From:
Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 10:39 am
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MN went smoke free Oct 1st! Sure is nice to not come home and smell like a butt having sat in a club the last 4-5 hours and having to strip down and immediately put your clothes in the dry cleaning bag hanging in the garage, along with letting your amps/instruments and equipment "air"  Now they can go straight to the music room  |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 12:02 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
I do not disagree at all about drinking and driving, and it is against the law to do it and rightfully so. The problem is you gotta get caught to get arrested.
A smoker may not even drink and they can violate the law just for lighting up..and maybe get fined...I guess...
theres something wrong here in Kansas Toto...
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There's nothing wrong in Kansas.
Blowing carcinogens into peoples' faces in an enclosed space harms <i>other people's</i> health. If it's outlawed, then it rightfully joins a long list of other similar public hazards like drunk driving. This is not "The Big Bad Government" at work. It's common sense. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 12:09 pm
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| John Steele wrote: |
| Quote: |
it is now a real pleasure to gig in a smoke-free environment.
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I hope you enjoy that short window of opportunity for gigging before the club shuts down next year.
It's complete freedom.... just me and my band-in-a-friggin-box program, sitting in the living room, with no gig.
Hooray.
-John |
John - Smokers have been very much in the minority here for quite a while, and the majority of them have accepted the new law. They go outside and smoke, but don't stop going out to clubs and pubs (bars). The downside is that maybe some have stopped going out, but others who didn't enjoy going to a smoke filled venue are now venturing out. So it's not all doom and gloom here.
Smokers who don't comply with the law here run the risk of an on-the-spot fine, but it's debateable if the law enforcers (whoever they are) would actually issue a fine in a bar or club.
I haven't seen any impact on numbers of attendances in the venues I play in since the ban. |
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Mark Ardito
From:
Chicago, IL, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 12:14 pm
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Chicago is going "Smoke Free" on January 1st, 2008. There are a few clubs that have already taken the stand and are enforcing the no-smoking rules. I have talked to the owners before gigs and they have said that they have actually seen an increase in business since the ban on smoking. Most people think that it will drive the smokers out of the bar, but in fact it is now a more pleasurable place to visit.
Cheers!
Mark |
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John Steele
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 12:41 pm
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It seems to have a different effect depending on whether the establishment is urban or rural.
Most of the urban establishments here have stayed on a mostly even par since the smoking ban. People accept going outside to smoke. However, in the small towns and more rural areas, the establishments are falling like dominoes.
I enjoy the smoke free atmosphere of the places too... but now I have to drive 60 miles to find one that still hires bands.
The argument that non-smokers will start coming out more and even things up is very common. I don't buy it. Alot of them will find some other reason not to go out. Cocooning at home - it's the new Black.
In my little town, we used to have two establishments which featured live music every weekend, and often featured a special music night (jams, etc) through the week. Now there is no live music at all, and on Sundays, Mondays and Tuesdays there is no place to even get a drink after 9:30 p.m.
For the purposes of gigging, for me it's mostly festivals, fairs, private parties and casinos these days. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 12:50 pm
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| Well we went smoke free in pubs and bars about 5 or 6 years ago and there was the usual hue and cry about business dying!! Guess what -- the pubs are doing just fine and the occasional smoker goes outside for their fix, and for musicians it's a god send - !!! I have never smoked so I notice it more than most - my hair and clothes still smell good at the end of the night(so the girls tell me :-}), and so does my guitar. |
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A. J. Schobert
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio,
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 1:14 pm
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I am really glad that they enforced this in ohio, for the most part peaple that smoke are really inconsiderate, I can only think of a few times a smoker has asked me if I mind that he/she smokes.
"no I really love that second hand smoke yes I want lung cancer because of your addictions please light up!"
I think not!
It is a disgusting habbitt and why should I have to breath that crap in? NOT!
I am tired of my clothes smelling like smoke!
Truthfully in ohio the nightclubs and resteruants are fine.
Good post ken I am glad |
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Ray Walker
From:
Smithfield, NC, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 2:11 pm
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Well I would really like to see the expressions on the faces of non-smokers when they ban tobacco altogether. Those folks smoking all them nasty cigs are paying a very very huge (billions of dollars) amount in taxes that non-smokers would otherwise have to cough up ( pun intended). Not to mention even billions more this government gets from the tobacco industry workers and factories. When you put enough of those billions together and it only takes a very short period of time….then you have trillions. Lay off the workers makin them nasty things and we can pay unemployment for them folks too. How about the lost taxes coming from the factory and the town they are in. Heck yea let’s ban em altogether and quit messin around….and each year you non smokers can pay that tax for a while. Now some of you are going to protest a bit and say you are alright with them just going outside….but that won’t fly. If you really want to be fair….instead of treating smokers like dirt let’s just treat everyone equal and we all pay those taxes…. I’ve done the research folks and I assure you… you are talking trillions of dollars that someone is going to have to pay and not just one time. Year after year until you die. Right now the smokers are paying it. Be careful what you ask for….cause Lord only knows you’re just liable to get it. You can’t quite grasp it yet??? Imagine on the news tonight… they explain how they must increase taxes on the citizens of this great country this year alone of only one trillion dollars and they follow that up with the words “and for every year to come”. Light em up if you have ‘em.
Ray
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Jim Eller
From:
Kodak, TN (Michigan transplant)
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 3:51 pm
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Tennesse went smoke free in public places also.
Kentucky next????? |
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Ron Scott
From:
Michigan
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 4:17 pm
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I quit playing in smoke venue's ,Bars,Halls. Ect about 10 years ago..makes for a cleaner,Steel,Amp,Cloths and most of all my lungs......RS
_________________
Franklin D10 Stereo - 8 and 6 - Black Box-Zum Encore 4 and 5 Nashville 400,Session 400, DD3 for delay ,also Benado Effects pedal.
Steeling with Franklin's..and Zum Encore |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 5:13 pm
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I'm gonna say this one more time, even for my buddy Ray..
I hate smoke from butts...but I don't have to sit and have a Beer with Ray if he is smoking..I have a choice. I'll go have a Beer with him when he puts that thing out...I support his right to have a butt if the establishment allows it...note I said establishment..which is not GOVT.
IF smoking is the killer that it is claimed to be..outlaw the dam stuff ! Don't fine the smokers !Don't raise the taxes on it ! get rid of it altogether... geeze Louise ! Playing the carcinogen card is not the answer to allow the GOV to step INSIDE a private business.
I don't have a problem with smoke free, I kinda like it myself but I do have a problem with the concept of the GOV telling someone they can't smoke the stuff they buy legally because its killing the guy next to him, and doing it in a privately owned establishment.
Thats the problem I have with the whole GOV intervention thing..
What will the GOV outlaw next ? IF we think they are gonna stop at butts then we really have a problem...
Cheeseburgers with 60 grams of fat ?
and yes, I hate coming home with stinky smoke smelling clothes , and I too leave them in the garage...but I'de rather be coming home from a gig than waiting for the phone NOT to ring to get a gig or two... |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 5:19 pm
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In just my opinion only,banning smoking in [some] clubs is just a sign of the times with political correctness gone crazy,I smoke[but don't condone it,wish I had never taken up the habit]I know in the general public smokers are in the minority,but in the small taverns,bars,and honky tonks across the country they are the majority,In these venues guys and gals want a place they can enjoy a beer,smoke,and BS with their friends,I agree NO ONE should be able to smoke in a cafe,gro store,hospital,department store,etc,But in a bar? come on PC crowd,let the stinky,dirty,old smokers have at least one refuge,don't you know.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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A. J. Schobert
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio,
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 5:38 pm
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Ray what I am happy with is the ban of smoking in public places, I do not care what peaple do in there own homes.
Me and my wife where looking to buy a home and every once in a while we would walk through a home that a smoker lived in, we walked out, smokers just don't seem to smell how disgusting they really are!
I don't like to see the government control everything in our lives but if this means to give up a little freedom then so be it, guys this crap causes cancer!
As I said above smokers are inconsiderate and I am very glad the government stepped in.
By the way the ohio smoking ban was passed about a year ago, only here recently has it started to be enforced. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 6:12 pm
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| A. J. Schobert wrote: |
guys this crap causes cancer!
As I said above smokers are inconsiderate and I am very glad the government stepped in.
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If it causes Cancer then why doesn't the GOV step in and shut it down instead of Tax it ?
I also know plenty of non smokers who are inconsiderate..actually I know more non smokers who are inconsiderate, I hardly know any smokers anymore...
My opinion is NEVER be glad when the GOV steps in, because sooner or later they are gonna step into something else that effects another group of folks...
I'm still fighting as to how a small privately owned Bar is considered a PUBLIC place that can be GOVT mandated. I guess because it is "OPEN" to the Public..
and we are not talking restaurants or Public facilities, we are talking Bars..with stools, Mugs, Shot glasses and yes, butts...
I don't smoke and I wish Ray and Charles didn't either.. |
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Ray Walker
From:
Smithfield, NC, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 8:41 pm
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Well Tony....we're still friends  I agree that smelling smoke stinks to some folks but that's a personal issue. Just because you don't choose to smoke doesn't mean you somehow should have a right to take that away from those who do. From a personal viewpoint I think it would be a great idea to quit and maybe someday I will break the habit...but while I am still in this "sensitive" "addictive" state of mind it would be a good idea to avoid me if i get the urge to smoke one and can't But seriously...when you look at second hand smoke....you gotta be kidding that you really think that's the worst thing to worry about. Other than Tony I don't know you guys but I'd be willing to bet that some of you tip the scale past the perfect point, if you know what I mean...and I bet you eat things that aren't good for you too...and I'm not crazy about fat people who just gotta sweat a lot
but ease up a bit. For the record...smoking is not good for you...ok??? But if you want folks to stand in the cold winter weather and rain because you don't want to smell it...I can't change your mind...but here's the way I do it. No matter how badly I get treated I try to always remember that when I have company at my home or in my shop who are non-smokers and if I get the urge for a smoke I go outside...yep...even on my own turf...I think it's the right thing to do. Now none of that had anything to do with my previous reply...which is..... if you are going to make certain aspects of smoking against the law (and the arguement is not smell but health reasons) then you should shut down the factories that make it and outlaw it. Now nobody can smoke and EVERYONE MUST PAY TO RECOVER THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN LOST REVENUES. Don't you find it strange that these posts simply ignore that aspect of the game. Ignoring it won't make it go away. I'd bet my house against yours that if Uncle Sam showed up on your doorstep to collect their portion from you (which would be a staggering amount) you would be crying foul because it wasn't your fault. Well if Uncle Sam did that...it would only be because he was giving you what you ask for. Now lighten up a little...chuckle at this whole thing and let's move on down the road....cause I just know something more important is gonna happen tomorrow.
RW |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2007 8:45 pm
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In ANY group of people ,smokers or non smokers you will find a few jerks,I disagree that all smokers are inconsiderate,FAR from the truth,Myself and MOST of the people I know that do smoke,would NOT try to smoke in someone's home that don't smoke,or if they are riding in car with a non smoker,IMO the most RUDE and INCONSIDERATE people on earth are the PC police,No matter what the issue is,even tho they may be out numbered ten to one,their agender is the ONLY one that matters ,in their minds no other opinion matters,if you don't conform to their way of thinking then you are a BAD,BAD,BAD,person,makes you wonder who the REAL INCONSIDERATE ONES ARE,don't you know.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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