stiff pedals

Spencer Cullum · Posted 4 Dec 2007 2:19 am

my msa pedals (ABC) on my universal are feeling stiff - i have a jimmy day set up on it - would greasing it solve the problem?

i heard engine oil's the best stuff to use

any suggestions? - spencer

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Assuming your guitar has an all pull changer - raise helper springs! A spring is attached to a small hole in the raise finger, at a point where it just exits the underside of the body top panel. This spring is pulled back and anchored to the underside of the top panel (floor) of the guitar about 6" toward the keyhead end. On most guitars a small plastic stick with an eye at one end to catch the spring, and, several balls spaced about 3/8" part along its' length, is used to adjust the spring tension. To adjust the tension one chooses which ball to slip into a slot in a samll peice of angle aluminum mounted to the floor.

This would be quite the mod but worth it in my opinion. You would need new raise finges with holes for the spring. It can reduce cabinet detune and makes the guitar so much easier to play.

Can anyone comment if raise helpers can be applied to an Emonns P/P guitar?

Jim

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Make sure the cross shafts have a little play by wiggling them front to back. If the pedal attachments rub against the front/back panels, they will feel stiff and slow to return.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

A little lubricant can work wonders.
Just recently, I had a knee lever that was sort of "binding" up and I hit a few pivot points for the lever with some 3-in-1 and it took care of the problem.

Neil Getz · From: Berkeley, California, USA

Check those little brass pull-pins in your bell cranks. If they are out of round, that can cause your pedals to feel stiff. They are merely brass so they will get misshapen from years of use, particularly under a heavy foot in the absence of lubrication. Even worse, the stiffer they get the harder you push to make the change which in turn will tend to increase their deformation further as well as increase wear at other points along the pedal chain. It is easy to replace them as I mentioned in your earlier thread.

Also, check to make sure that none of your pedal cross-shafts (the shaft that holds the pedal to the pedal bar) have slipped out at one end.

Also, make sure your pull-tubes (those tubes between the tuning nuts and the changer) are lubricated along their sides where they go through the end-plate.

I have experienced stiffness at different times due to all of the above.

Ulf Edlund · From: Umeå, Sweden

It's almost impossible to tell without seeing the guitar "live". It can be any of the above or it can be that the pulls need to be geared down at the bellcranks.
I don't believe this MSA has any helper springs and it should not need any.
My laquer Classic SS has the softest action i've ever experienced on any steel.

Uffe

Ulf Edlund · From: Umeå, Sweden

Oh... Me again... If it's gummed up it needs to be cleaned before lubing. If you don't want to dissemble the changer i've been recommended lighter fluid, such as zippo. Never tried it myself though.

Uffe

Spencer Cullum · Posted 4 Dec 2007 7:26 pm

thanks guys

jim, im gona take my steel to my local pedal steel tech / engineer and see what he makes of that idea - it could well be the cure.

but first see if its gummed up and just need re-greasing

thanks everyone
spen

richard burton · From: Britain

Jim,
I've put raise helpers on my Emmons push-pull.
As I use a wound sixth string,
lowered a full tone,
I attached its raise helper spring to the sixth string lowering rod.

Ulf Edlund · From: Umeå, Sweden

The changer design on these MSA's is a piece of great engeneering and it should play like butter without helpers.

Uffe

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Thanks Richard for the Diagram. So it is possible.

Jim P.

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

I have had the honor to own 6 or 7 MSA's & never had that kind of problem with any of those guitars, they all had Bud Carters name on the underside, so mine must have all been 'blessed by Bud', which is a good thing. You should take that to someone who is familiar with the MSA's they could make it work smooth as silk for you.

Ernie Very Happy

MSA S-12

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

I have had the honor to own 6 or 7 MSA's & never had that kind of problem with any of those guitars, they all had Bud Carters name on the underside, so mine must have all been 'blessed by Bud', which is a good thing. You should take that to someone who is familiar with the MSA's they could make it work smooth as silk for you.

Ernie Very Happy

MSA S-12

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

If the bellcranks are leaning too far forward toward the changer, they are ahead of center and the moment arm, or net effective centerline dimension, actually increases as the pull is engaged. At a time when you need greater leverage against the changer, you wind up with exactly the opposite. Undo the set screw, re-mount the crank 'straight up' on its shaft, then re-connect the brass bushing to the pullrod with the set screw. As the shaft rotates, the center-to-center dimension actually becomes shorter and results in gradually-increased leverage against the changer as its tension is on the increase. True, the linear motion decelerates, but the leverage increases greatly as the shaft rotates. This is a principle that most builders have overlooked for eons.
Try the cleaning with naphtha/lighter fluid and oil first, then try the change in leverage secondarily. Better yet, try both. I've reset the cranks on MSA's without changing anything else whatsoever and made them into 'soft' playing guitars by doing that alone.
PRR

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