lower G#s half step

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

I'm searching for something to do with my fourth pedal on my Universal 12. Right now it's redundant.
Anybody lowering their G#s a half step?
This seems like a logical change to get the root minor chord.
Do you think I'll get hysterisis (return)trouble considering the problematic middle G#?

Jim

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

I should have said in the E9 mode. (which is very close to the 10 string standard with the exception of the low 7th note)

So E9 players feel free to respond. Please?

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

I consider lowering the G#s a half step one of the most valuable changes to have on a guitar. I have it on a knee, though.

Some over-return on the middle G# is almost certain, but on six different steels I've had this lower on it was (is) inconsequential (to me, anyway).

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I lower the 6th string G# to an F#.
Usually it requires a plain string, not wound.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

A G# lower would also give you a b6 or #5 depending on how you look at it in your B6 mode. That would give you a handy augmented chord.
_________________
Bob

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Erv, you find that lower useful even though you have an F# string right beside your G# (I assume)?

Bob, I hadn't thought of the B6 benefit - thanks.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Jim,
Yes, sometimes you need to make the change without picking a different string.

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

That makes sense Erv. Now that I think of it that can be the case for quite a few changes, ie the Franklin pedal for example.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Exactly!

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

I have both.
On my Emmons I have the G# to F# split change but seldom use it. I find I just go to the G for the root minor as mentioned above most of the time.
So on my Sho-Bud I just have the G# to G change which I use quite a bit. If I need an F# I have it on the 7th string.

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Bob Hofnar,

Those pickups you make are fabulous. I've got one in my guitar.

Jim

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

I have the G#'s lower a half step on my U12 on pedal 1- 2,3,4 are Emmons ABC:

red=raise ,blue= lower

I had it on my MSA 10 string E9 on a lever for a long time and was the one change I did not want to lose when going to the Universal. The current location is not quite as convenient for the ways I had been using it but it has opened up some other options I hadn't considered, so that's cool. used in conjunction with the second string half step lower for a min7 it's sweet. used with the A pedal for a Dom7 it's sweet too!

I have it on my ZB on a knee

I use a wound 6th so I have fewer issues with hysteresis...

I have never lowered the 6th a whole step so I can use the wound 6th just fine with the half step lower... a plain would be necessary for the whole step

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

I lower all 3 G#-G on my SD-12 Ext E9th MSA Legend.
I use it for the root minor and some banjo rolls with 2nd lowered to D.
JE:-)>
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Gary Shepherd · From: Fox, Oklahoma, USA

I have G# to F# on a lever. Why not do that with a half stop?
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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Either that or, if your guitar is so equiped, you can do a split tuning. Your B pedal raises the G# to A. If your knee lever drops the G# to F#, when you engage both pedal and lever, you should be able to get a G. Very Happy

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

I have the G# to F# lower 0n the 6th string with a half stop on my '73 LDG with only four knees. I hate to add knees to that guitar out of a perhaps misguided "vintage" sensibility and adherence to Lloyd's "four is enough" principle.

But...

On my guitars with seven E9th knees I have the F# lower on the 6th string on one knee, and both G#s to G on another. I don't like half stops. And it's nice to have that top G as well--you can do pretty stuff with it, and you hardly need a C pedal.

Moon in Alaska · From: Kasilof, Alaska * R.I.P.

Jim... The G# to G lower is an OLD move, used many years by some of us. I still have it and use it a lot. Most of my use does not include using the minor.
I use it up and down the neck simular to the F lever to avoid a slant.
Try your strings 5 and 6 strings.5th fret..A chord. Play 5 and 6. slide down 3 frets, and engauge your G# to G lever.slide back to no lever at the 5th fret, slide up 2 frets and engauge it...
You will find places ALL over the neck where you can use this !!! This is old stuff that we use to play with bar slants...
Moon
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<<Moon>>
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Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Jim, that's a very good change to have but if you're going to use it on a floor pedal it's best to have it on the 1st pedal on strings 3, 6, & 10 (E9/B6). Then move your regular A,B, & C pedals over to 2,3, & 4. That way you can use it for a nice full minor chord.

Also using it with your A pedal will give you a diminished all the way across. Also when you go from a I to a IV chord where you normally would use the A & B pedals, substitute that pedal along with the A pedal for a nice variation, especially on a swing or rock tune.

In the B6th mode it's a #V so you get another position for an augmented chord.

Another use is if you wanna save some wear and tear on your 3rd string. The move from a I to a IIm to a IIIm that you'd normally use your B & C pedals can be done by using that pedal alone. Say you're in G and want to go to Am to Bm, just play strings 3, 4, & 5 at the 3rd fret, then slide to the 5th fret with that pedal, then slide to the 7th fret with the pedal still engaged.

You can also do a nice intro to a tune using that same position just mentioned in reverse. There's a whole lot of things you can do with it which are easy to find with a little experimentation.....JH in Va.
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rpetersen · From: Iowa

I was going to start a new post, but figured this would fit in here - Does anyone have the drawing of how to get a split tuning using just the 3 pull rods on the "B" pedal and the knee lowering lever for the G#-G-F# split - I had it and can't find it and and am trying to set up a guitar that does not have the endplate tapped for the full lower
randmpete@iowatelecom.net

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Thanks everyone. Great ideas.

Dave and Jerry (and other uni guys) have any trouble fitting your left knee between the the left levers considering you are offset from original Emmons set up? Is it uncomfortable perhaps? And, do you ever use both feet (on pedals far apart) so you can actuate pedals normally dedicated to the B6 mode in the E9 mode? I've got one instance I can think of. The only problem I see is stepping on and off the volume pedal - It's not so easy keeping it where it's at.

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