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Topic: Removing Emmons Knee Levers (P/P) |
Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
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Posted 28 Nov 2007 3:28 pm |
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I've got a great D10 Emmons P/P, but I's got extended knee levers on it, and they drive me crazy. I'm about 6'1, and I def. dont need extended knees, they just dangle down and get in the way. They're also polished, and I'd like to get them off the guitar, cut down, and anodized black.
Any info on how to best take just the dangling knee lever portion off? It looks like a peened rod that holds the lever to the part that goed on the cross shaft. do you have to drill this out? and can I do this without taking the cross shafts out of the guitar. (that would be a project killer)
Any help would be appreciated.
Mike |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2007 3:53 pm Emmons Knee Levers
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Mike,
Those 3/16" dowel pins are a press-fit and will need to be gently driven out with a drift punch and a small hammer. I would strongly recommend doing this work on the bench. It's pretty easy to remove the hinged, two piece assemblies because there are only four wood screws holding them to the body. The others can also be fairly easy to remove. There is usually just a 6-32 allen head screw that fastens the silver part of the lever to the cross bar. Once you remove that screw, you should be able to work the lever off the cross bar.
If you have an older guitar, the levers may not have any angle adjustment (6-32 set screw) in the slot that the handles pivot in. This would be a great time to install those if they are missing.
Get in touch with me if you need more information.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2007 11:10 am Knee Levers
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| I will trade you authentic Emmons black short knees for your long silvers if yours are real Emmons parts. We can swap entire knee structures so you don't need to pull pins. I believe if your knees are real Emmons you will find the pins are not dowel pins or rolled pins but short lengths of the welding rod used for the pushes and pulls. |
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Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
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Posted 29 Nov 2007 2:33 pm
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thanks for the replies, guys.
without having my guitar right here, I think that most of the knee levers slide over the cross shaft which it operates (well, the hinged part does, the knee lever is then pinned to the "hinge part") this seems to require removal of the cross shaft. I'll take a look and some pics when I get home
Chris, I'll take a look, and If mine are what you're looking for, I'd love to trade for real black emmons ones, I'd need 5 of them for a basic emmons set-up.
I'll post some pics tonight. |
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Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 8:16 am
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OK, I looked at the guitar (took pics, but left my camera at home... I'll get it at lunch)
It looks like what chris said is true, the pins in the knee levers looks like pieces of pull-rod, that have been peened to be fatter onthe outside to hold.
As far as removal, at least 2 of the 5 levers (the 2 that move to the left, not sure of the vertical) are mounted directly around the cross shaft and set with a screw. I can see no other way to get these off than to take the shaft out of the guitar, I hear this can be a bear. I'll try to remember me camera at lunch and post some pics. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 8:51 am
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It isn't much of a problem to remove the cross shafts from a p/p. They are mounted on removable brackets on the back side. It is the LeGrandes that are a bugger. They are mounted with spring loaded pins on the back side which are unaccessable once installed.  |
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Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 3:29 pm
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here's a few pics, maybe it's not as hard as I thought, but alot of work to take aprt all those pulls to get the cross rod out.
Chris L, let me know what you think. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 3:57 pm
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I sent you two emails. I have a few questions about some parts I see under that guitar.
Chris |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 4:26 pm
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| look at the mechanical apparatus...unscrew what's necessary to take away what you don't want..screw back what's needed. |
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Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 4:34 pm
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Hey Ivey, if you're such a P/P pro, maybe you could lend some constructive, helpful comments.
that's the dumbest reply I've real in a while.
Hey, Ivey, my 8 speed automatic is broken in my Benz, can I use your "methodology" to fix this?
Since some people cant seem to grasp the obvious, removing a whole crossbar would entail "un-adjusting" and removing all the pulls or pushes attached to that cross rod, this guitar plays so sweetly, and I've spent a good amount of time adjusting it to my liking, that I worry about taking it all apart. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 5:47 pm
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gee..you people with expensive cars are touchy! sorry, mike...just kidding around...pp's can be really annoying in the take apart and put together and 'drop the allen wrench again' aspects. i'm by no means an expert...i also can't afford for anyone to work on my steels, so i just figure out how to do it myself! hi chris lucker...met ya in bishop once...sorry to be the jerk of the thread!
ps mike..at least the 'dumbest reply' is some kind of an honor...thanx |
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Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 7:54 pm
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I drive a Ford, and it's a stick shift. It works great.  |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 1:09 am
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This might qualify for the dumbest post, but I write in good faith:
It might be possible to make a small tool that could push the pin out, a bit like a chain link breaker as used on pedal cycles.
If you have access to a workshop, something simple could soon be made.
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Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 9:13 am
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Richard, that's a really good idea. In fact, I like all of your ideas, unless they involve nore than 3 helper springs.  That would be the way I'd like to do it, just get the lever off. and, unless they're original (which I dont think they are, maybe chris Lucker could help me out here)
trim those guys down.
Now, that I've been talking to Chris L, I'm not sure if they're original or not. I thought (wrongly I understand) that all Emmons guitars had black knees, of somewhat shorter nature. Mine are 7" long, including the tang. But now I hear that some had long knees, and they were polished. I dont know hwat years this occured in, so now I dont know if the knees are correct for the year of the guitar, 1974.
Besides, the guy I got it from said it had longer knees put on it, but I dont know any more than that. |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 10:31 am Long Knee Levers
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Mike,
Here is a photo of my '75 Emmons (2167D) that came with the long levers. I'm currently in the process of doing some work on it, so I just thought I'd show you a example of a guitar around the same age as yours with the longer levers.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
---------------------------------- |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 11:16 am
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You guys and your puny knee levers! You wanna see a big knee lever? My Fingertip has a bigger knee lever than all yours put together!
10 inches stem to stern! Why? I have no idea! |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2007 6:59 am
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I bought a new pedal steel a few years back and the knee levers were at a length where the ends hit me right at the knee cap. After a while it got to be quite uncomfortable. I contacted the builder and he furnished me with some knee levers that were a couple of inches longer. That took care of the problem.
Better too long than too short.  |
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Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
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Posted 3 Dec 2007 8:07 am
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| Lynn, thanks for posting those pics. those knees look like they're the same length as mine. My serial is 1975D, so they're pretty close. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2007 9:22 am
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If the ends of the small rod have indeed been peened over, you may have to take a Dremel to one side of it. If you grind, or file off one side, it should be easy to push the pin out the other side. I'd also put a vacuum cleaner hose right next to it to catch the filings.
Lookin' at the pics again, I'd use a file. And I'd replace them with a machine screw and a Nylok nut. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2007 1:40 pm
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Mike, I have four short black authentic Emmons knees that you may have in trade. They are two lefts, and two rights and include the parts that make them two piece and three piece. I am not going to drive the pins out and replace them with screws or rolled pins or dowel pins, though. I will trade my complete knees for four of yours. You keep your brackets and shafts and screws etc.
Chris |
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