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Topic: Jerry Byrd's SEVEN String Reso. |
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 23 Jul 2007 2:32 pm |
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There WAS at one time some doubt as to whether the guitar he played in the Marty Robbins "Drifter" series was just a "Prop" borrowed for the shoot and not even played "Live" :- Well, the 'Playing Live' has been discussed and "Put to Bed" so to speak.
Definitive proof is in this video that the reso WAS a seven string, and the fact that Jerry's preference was for seven string tunings would lead one to believe that the guitar he played was his own.
(I don't think seven string resos would be a very common prop around the TV studios in the late 50's !)
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 23 Jul 2007 2:59 pm
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I for one, never doubted it was seven strings. 
But thanks for the closeup, Basil - that makes it pretty well official.
Also, I believe it was 1965.
If it were the 50's, it would be even less likely that there would be a seven string lying around. Dark ages for the dobro, virtually none in production - and if memory serves, the Dopyeras weren't even producing any in that era.
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Kevin Brown
From:
England
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 1:12 am
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| Thanks Basil, thats been bugging me ever since I first saw it, you can make out a slight nut mod at its centre also. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 3:30 am A little bit of waffle and meandering.
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The VHS Tape was released in 1988 and in the introduction Ronnie Robbins (Marty's Son) says that the shows were recorded for television in 1965/6.
He says "Shot in black and white unfortunately the industry was changing to colour so the shows were shelved."
I though the TV industry had already introduced colour (Timeline)
| Quote: |
1951
Color television introduced in the U.S.
For the first time, a nationwide program airs. Edward R. Murrow, in the first broadcast of his See It Now series, tells viewers, as he looks into the split-screen image of the Golden Gate and Brooklyn bridges, that they for the first time are able to see the Atlantic and Pacific oceans simultaneously.
AND in 1964
Peyton Place premieres on ABC and is the first prime-time soap opera.
Color television makes its way into U.S. homes. |
I think they were black and white because they were "LOW Budget Self financed projects."
Robbins couldn't sell them and that's why they were shelved. The dialogue in some of the scenes is less than amateur and long delays where Marty searches for the next lines mentally are obvious points for editing. They weren't edited out and that leads me to believe the purse strings were VERY tight.
That of course is another fact lending credulity to the fact that the performances WERE LIVE, the budget couldn't support a SEPARATE tracking session.
If Marty couldn't see fit to edit out his own dialogue blunders, then why would he spend money on tracking the backings. Anyway that's a pointless argument because SIMPLE scrutiny of the lip sync and guitar playing shows it to be "LIVE"
It's commendable that his family saw fit to release the videos for sale to the general public, but still again on a low budget, the video quality CAN be enhanced, (I've done so) and the wow and flutter on some of the introduction scenes could have been avoided if the dubbing engineer had been a little more conscientious.
One of the intro scenes has a lot of RF breakthrough on the picture, as interference, (Presumably a local Ham, or CBer of similar radio transmission) introduced either in the mastering process or more likely in the duplication.
Still, the SUPERB singing and Jerry Byrd's UNRIVALED playing are there for posterity
(Vitriolic Pen is now Sheathed)
Shot told me that he and Jerry were quite good friends, so, could the reso be one of Shot's creations for Jerry ?
I see no logo.
Baz
_________________
Steelies do it without fretting
CLICK THIS to view my tone bars and buy——>
Last edited by basilh on 30 Nov 2007 1:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 3:55 am Don't Play the Minors !!
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Thanks Mark and Kevin, the problem is that urban myths develop and tend to get believed, and a LOT of what Jerry told "Lesser Mortals" was 'Tongue in Cheek' ... UNFORTUNATELY, those who don't recognize that side of his persona tend to believe all his mischievous 'Wind Ups'. !!
Jerry once said "Don't Burlesque a melody" he made up for it in other playful ways, like telling people that in the studios they didn't bother with the minors !!
Baz
Last edited by basilh on 30 Nov 2007 1:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 1:45 am
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The thought just struck me that when Jerry Byrd made that statement about 'Minors" to C.C. he may have been referring to the 'Minor' Players ?
I believe he told CC "We leave out the minors" Maybe CC can enlighten us as to the EXACT wording ?
I'm still of the opinion that the SEVEN string Resonator was probably one Shot made for Jerry ..
Am I wrong ? |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 6:40 am
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| Didn't Shot Jackson play a 7 string Dobro? Maybe the guitar belonged to Shot...Jerry |
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Jack Byrd
From:
Kalamazoo, Michigan
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 7:00 am
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| When I first saw these videos I questioned Jerry on the reso. My specific statement to him was "I didn't even know you onwed a reso. He told me he didn't and that he borrowed it but didn't remember who from! |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 8:20 am
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That someone could play as well as he did on a borrowed guitar that he was not familiar with is a great testament to his talent.
Maybe the reso belonged to Marty. It's well known that Marty played pedal steel. |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 10:04 am
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| Jack, thats correct about the reso. Jerry said he only liked to hear Oswald and a good reso player. A reso did not fit his kind of music. He further stated that he did like the sound of the metal tricones and played Pua Almeidas in later yrs. All he knew about the prop was that Marty was to provide it and he did.If anyone would like to know about recording the minors, all that he told me is on the 1987 seminar tape that Jerry made at the HSGA convention. Great tape that included many things. cc |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 10:16 am
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| BTW Jack, the way the sound was made is like I said in my orig post. I just got tired of all the experts saying that Jerry did not know what he was talking about especially when he was talking to me, a friend since 1948. Jerry never kidded aroun when talking to friends about strrl guitar and music, especially hawaiian music. I don't care what people think of me, as the old song goes" got along without cha before I met cha and I'll get along without cha now". However my blood boils when they cast doubt on an old friend. BTW I never said Marty was mouthing the song. The only part that was prerecorded was Jerry using the technique in the studio that thew techs thought up. You could set 2 ft from Jerry and if he was faking with a record you would swear he was playing live. cc |
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Colin Brooks
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 10:35 am
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The headstock arrangement on the 7 string in the video is identical to Shot Jackson's guitar, a modified late 30's jumbo bodied Regal dobro. It can be seen clearly on the cover of 'That Dobro Sound's Goin''Round' on Starday.
If Jerry wanted to borrow a 7 string Dobro Shot would have been a good person to ask! |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 12:10 pm
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| Right on Colin Marty volunteered to furnish one and did. Maybe he obtained it from Shot. cc |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 2:40 pm
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I would have thought that if Shot told me that he and Jerry were close friends, and he later made jerry a twin necked ShoBud, the likelihood of Marty getting the guitar from shot would not be plausible.. Unless of course Shot was pulling my leg..
C.C. we're sorry to have lost you as a subscriber, we were looking forward to you sending us an article about yourself..Still..Que Sera Sera.. |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 4:45 pm
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| Baz, as soon as I received your email saying that sub had expired I emailed you asking the amount needed for my renewal and I would send you my check. I have heard nothing and I have sent a total of three emails the last one yesterday and have heard nothing. I hope you get this and will advise. Aloha Dream is the best publication of its type. Best wishes cc |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 5:23 pm
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There is something wrong with your spam filter, I have replied three times in the past couple of days. Check your trash can or wherever the spam filter puts unknown mail..
I've just sent you another AND a PM..via the forum system.. |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 5:32 pm
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| after I ead your above post I went to my inbox and there were three answers from you and Pat. My check will be in the mail tomorrow Am. Thank goodness that is taken care of. cc |
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Jack Byrd
From:
Kalamazoo, Michigan
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Posted 30 Nov 2007 7:05 pm
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More on Reso's and Jerry. On his Jerry Byrd Steel Guitar Hawaiian Style CD he plays a couple of songs on the reso. We got to talking about that and he said he used Pua's National on that CD. I told him I sure didn't care that much for the reso sound compared to what a grew up listening to him play which was the Ricky, etc. Here is what he said. There are a few people out there that think I can't play a resonator and I included a couple of tunes on this CD to show them I could. I am very biased but in my mind he could play any kind of a steel guitar.
As for Shot Jackson and Jerry. They were very good friends at one time. Shot wanted to manufacture a frying pan that Jerry would endorse and recieve a small royalty for each one sold. After some back and forth in the early stages things started to fall apart. In the end they were not friends. Jerry told me one thing he learned about this whole mess was not to ever go into with a friend. This was covered in pretty good detail a few years ago on the forum and last time a searched in No Peddlers it was still there. If you want all the details search under my name and you should find it. I forget the subject but I think frying pan was in the title. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 3:42 am
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That's MOST informative Jack. Had Jerry forgotten that he played a resonator guitar on over 20 songs on a TV series in 1964/5 ?
Surely the series had shown that he not only could play one, but was equally at home on one as he was on the electric steel guitar..
The playing on the "Drifter" series is a yardstick of excellence that I've heard non measure up to..
One thing still puzzles me and that is this "prop" story, for a couple of reasons.
I can't imagine a resonator guitar lying around a studio set as a prop, and especially as the one used was a SEVEN string. A VERY rare configuration in those days.
Secondly the tuning was C6/A7 which required string gauges totally different to the normal reso ones. Not once is Jerry uncomfortable with the strings and the tuning, this would tend to suggest that the strings were NOT just put on the guitar a couple of hours earlier. On a resonator guitar the strings take quite a while to settle in because of the flexibility of the cone and other factors such as stretching.
I DO have a pretty good memory and can remember the keys and formats of almost everything I've ever recorded, so my memory of what Shot told me is not being misconstrued of distorted by time.
Whatever transpired later, in the 60's Shot and Jerry WERE close, the ShoBud he used on his many recordings is proof of that.
If a reso was required for the "Drifter" series, Shot would have been the most likely source, AND it would have come set up for Jerry with the special gauges that Jerry use. Shot would know Jerry's gauges because of the Fry-Pan and twin 7/8 string Guitars that he made for him.
{quote]. The only part that was prerecorded was Jerry using the technique in the studio that thew techs thought up. You could set 2 ft from Jerry and if he was faking with a record you would swear he was playing live.[/quote]
Not verified CC. As I said earlier, if Marty didn't use the facility (you say was used by Jerry) to correct HIS own verbal stumbles, I'm sure that the overdub procedure wasn't available to the "crew"..
The general consensus of the other thread on the subject was that the recording was 'Live'
It was discussed in depth here :-
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=102002
I see C.C. that Jerry told you he overdubbed an ELECTRIC guitar with the amp face down to the floor for a warmer sound ?
REALLY !!
Big time wind up.. just like the thing about not playing the 'Minors' |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 4:24 am
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| Quote: |
| Even though the songs were prerecorded Jerry played the songs as if they were live so the video would look authentic |
I think another one of the embellishments that Jerry passed on to you C.C.
I don't believe what he told you, the acoustic guitar is strummed just once or twice before some of the songs and it's tone and microphone distance is identical when the song or tune gets going, and the lip sync is far too good for that era, also there are only edits twice in the 24 minute show, and to REMEMBER how play the EXACT notation and positions of 4 songs in a row so closely as to be undetectable by a pro player, is beyond belief.
Ask any pro you know, this question, is the playing 'live'
I already know the answer, but you may need reinforcement of my opinion, so go ahead, inquire.
Also ALMOST beyond belief but patently obvious is Jerry Byrd's superb control of pitch. |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 5:54 am
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| all the xspurts can say what they want to. I believe theman that was a friend since 1948. cc |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 6:18 am
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| I don't believe I said that Marty lipsynched. If I did it was a typo error on my part. The prerecording of the steel was the only one. According to Jerry Marty volunteered to get the prop and Jerry said ok. I know all of you are tired of this thread so I have told you what the great man told me. Any of you that believe he lied to a friend since 1948 can do so. This is my final post on this subject. cc |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 6:30 am
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Can't argue with your belief CC. that's democracy..
I would also stand by my belief especially if it was based on a factual conversation, as I am with the details related to me by Shot. I was the bandleader that backed Shot and Donna on their tour of Ireland in the early 70's, and, I produced an album of Donna. There was a series of duets I recorded with Shot at the same time but they were lost. NONETHELESS I would stand by what Shot told me, just as you do with what Jerry said.
Oh, I forgot, the resonator guitar used on the tour was a 7 string that bore more than a close resemblance to the one in the "Drifter" videos.
On the other hand, even in a democracy there are those who lead and those who follow..even the most respected have been known to be economical with the truth for the sake of impressions.. |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 7:53 am
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| two friends can disagree. If two friends agree all the time it means that one isn't thinking. I knew Shot from his days on the La hayride. This definately is my last post on this subject. cc |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 1 Dec 2007 9:29 am I can't believe JERRY BYRD lied to me!
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I've been closely following this post.
JERRY BYRD told ME, specifically, that during those later years, SHOT was no longer Jerry's close friend. I'm sure Jerry continued to respect Shot for his technical abilities. He never once spoke with a forked tongue about Shot.
As I interpreted it, most of the fall-out resulted from their botched biz deal with the Fry Pan replicas. Jerry was more than amazed that Shot would go ahead and manufacture more than the originally agreed to number of guitars. Jerry was quite clear on this point. Same thing happened to Jerry, more or less, with the Trot-Mor biz deal.
Oh yes, I have one of those guitars.......It doesn't have JERRY BYRD's name anywhere on it but on the fret board, it does say SHOT JACKSON. |
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