Chasing Licks From Scratch

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

I can't think of anything more challenging than trying to sort out the moves of difficult "licks" without the benefit of tablature. Steel guitarists who play their favorite licks during recording sessions, create hours of pleasure for budding players. I wonder if others spend hours searching for licks that appeal to their tastes in music.

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

I'd rather spend minutes lookin at tabs of "difficult licks" then spend hours applying these licks to learnin to play my favorite music.

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Bill,
Challenging - yes- but it also can be (and usually is for me)frustrating. Nothing is quite as difficult as copying a player's lick, intro, ending note for note. That is after you have figured out if he has a different pedal set-up than you. It is almost a special talent in itself to figure out licks and play them identically. One here among us is Mickey Adams,who is quite the expert at that stuff.

Sometimes I give up in frustration and make up my own lick that sounds somewhat the same and maybe just as appealing. I realize here two things: I will never have the touch of Emmons, Green etc so it will NEVER sound the same. Then I take comfort in what I heard Lloyd Green say; that is not much sense for a player to copy someone else. You learn more by making your own version.

If I were to choose which one I would want, either copy someones lick/run/intro/ending, or making my own from scratch and making it sound great, I am sure the latter one would win hands down.

Mitch Ellis · From: Collins, Mississippi USA

"...hours of pleasure for budding players"
Bill,
In my case, this is very true. Some disagree with copying other players. They say to create your own style and I, in general, agree. But I have learned alot of new licks while copying someone else. I would pick the wrong string by pure accident, but yet it would still sound good. I would make a mental note of it, and continue to try and copy the lick. After I learned the lick, I would sometimes have maybe three "accident" licks. Another thing I've noticed is that listening to a lick and trying to play it note for note can really increase one's ability to focus. Many times, a steel player will pick three notes at once. If you can pin-point one of those notes, and mentally block out the other two, then you can pin-point a note on your own instrument that may be a shade out of tune. When I was a beginner player, learning a lick "just like the record" is a HUGE confidence boost. Copying other players has been a very important and useful learning tool for me. Think of it like this. Would an infant child ever learn to talk if he never heard another human voice?
Mitch

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

The preceding comments are very interesting thoughts, that makes me more aware of the insights of others who are familiar with capturing difficult licks. I agree that learning the techniques through recorded material, is quite natural. After all, doesn't that
explain why the steel with its pleasing tones, is so popular in musical circles. The steel guitar in the hands of a skilled player marks the beginning of many triumphant achievements. Their interpretations of note patterns fall easily into place, while others tend to be confused when the
melodies require additional skills.
I've noted many times that chasing a lick that is original, and is heard for the first time, is a growing activity. Tablature simplifies artistry, but what of the hundreds of licks never offered through tab instructions?

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Being in a band in which you’re the only lead, will tend to push you to learn all or most of the lead parts; be it fiddle, guitar or kazoo. The trick is to attempt to make it sound close to the other instrument. At best not easy, at worst, near impossible. A good result can be pleasing, as was my learning the guitar and steel parts of "Coca Cola Cowboy". A very easy tune, but I was a struggling beginner. Now, a struggling old beginner.

Charley Wilder · From: Dover, New Hampshire, USA

It's fun but to carry it too far can be frustrating. I try to get the essence of a riff and leave it at that. I've done my time with the old turntable on 16 and a halfpitch tape recorder. Of course I have used tab and instruction material. But these days I just try to figure out the dominant notes. Once I have them down I then try to figure out the harmony notes. It takes concentration to separate the notes in your mind as you listen but it becomes easier. I, quite often have had the same experience as Mitch. I come up with variations that I either like better or just as well as the object riff!

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Figuring out licks by ear takes some time for me to do but seems to pay off. Sometimes I will spend hours a day for a week on the same phrase. Part of learning the phrase for me is understanding the musical ideas behind it and also trying to play the same thing in different places on the neck.

Its great to hear a steel part I'm learning "disapear" while I'm playing along.

I use the Amazing Slow Downer for transcribing.
http://www.ronimusic.com/

Sometimes I don't have time or the focus to do it that way and I look at some tab.
_________________
Bob

Dale Hansen · From: Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)

Chasing Licks From Scratch

It is a good challenge, and a lot of fun, as well.

It's a lot of what I do now, as I just play for my own amusement.
I always wanted to go back, and learn both parts (twin) on "Truck drivin' man", and just recently did so.

As Bent mentioned, I too, will often change a fingering pattern, or phrasing a little, to make it more compatible with my own wiring.

I believe that the most important tool we can have in dealing with frustration is the ability to minimize the importance of the thing you're working on. We often get frustrated with learning something because we put far too much value on it.
Just enjoy it.

I'm having a ball playing again, and as long as things are kept in perspective, I will continue to enjoy it.
I have relaxed a little on the "nevers" too.

When I began playing again this spring, I never intended to take it out of the house.
Doors have opened lately, and I've been out doing a little recording, and even accepted a showcase date, with a new artist in December.

Roger Edgington · From: San Antonio, Texas USA

I started playing pedal steel in the late 50s and spent many hours with a record slowed down so I could hear what was happening. Of coarse it put it in a different key also. I learned all I could from Day and Mooney like that. We didn't have tabs. So, I still like to do it the hard way-chase it down. Sometimes you find new unrelated things along the way. It makes you think and create that way. When I hear a steel, I try to mentally play along. I suppose most of you do.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

I'm not sure who gave me a taped recording of "Wild Side Of Life". The embellishments of the fills and note patterns have proved to be a work order. I wish that I had more in common with the original player of the colorful fills in this particular recording. I keep on looking for clues, as to whom the artist may be, and the riddle is bound to be solved if I do some checking with knowledgeable friends. I worked for hours on one pretty lick, and it has paid off. A double check of the beats that will fit well into the average country accompaniment is pending. It will require multiple plays to capture the absolute expression of the original recording. Music can be a powerful source of pleasure , and hardened souls fail to resist its soothing influences.

John Kingsley · From: Los Angeles, CA

Transcribing licks, for me anyway, takes the "randomness" out of the instrument...i also am able to play it better, cause i spent the time picking it out at the slow tempos kind of set the foundation for picking them faster...it's also really satisfying, like Bob said...plus you learn a lot about the instrument, and theory by doing so. I just transcribed all of Randle Currie's parts on Brad Paisley's "Mr. Policeman..." it took a long time, but i'm real glad i did it...

Gary Shepherd · From: Fox, Oklahoma, USA

I don't think I play anything EXACTLY like the original. I do get pretty close on a few songs but mostly, I just try to play it like I did the last time. I think I can get pretty close to what I normally play. Smile

Sometimes I just play nothing. But I'm usually singing when that happens.
_________________
Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000

www.16tracks.com

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Gary,

Your little pig is an enticement to enter the realm of overstuffed individuals, who are first in line at buffet dinners. I guess that they could be termed the piranhas of sit-down dinners. Young pigs are cute, I'll admit, like little children, and then they grow up to meet what the world has to offer. I've been chatting on the phone lately, with a friend who reminds me when I change the subject during our conversations. b0b will not allow a writer to drift too far off the chosen thread here on this forum. There doesn't seem to be any restrictions placed on a pig impersonating a human, as I recall. The point here is simply this; distractions pull away and diversify thought processes within the mind. Perhaps there is a much better pastime, known as a student attempting to move up to the level of established pickers. The players who spend numerous hours working on finesse, and melodic deliveries, apparently number in the thousands. It's amazing to think back on the successes of projecting the steel guitar by so many great artists. "Little" Roy Wiggins moved away from the "pack" and helped to make Eddy Arnold such a great success in the 40's and 50's. The events occurred back in those days before the big E, Franklin, and so many famous pickers were unknown. The Lyrics of country songs help to define past events. Song titles such as; "They Don't Make Them Like My Daddy Anymore" help to call attention to the roots of country music. From what I gather, this emulation of artistries dates back into the 20's and 30's. I'm reluctant to saddle up and dash off in the direction of innocently suggested concepts, relating to the mergings of steel into country music. This thread has singled out one of the ongoing practices that is part of the a country music tradition. Just as we enjoy singing another's songs, our zest for tasty licks is the universal language of steel pickers.

Charley Wilder · From: Dover, New Hampshire, USA

Gary Shepherd · From: Fox, Oklahoma, USA

Bill, after reading all of that 3 times now, I'm still not sure what you are trying to say.
_________________
Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000

www.16tracks.com

Parr Bryan · From: Nacogdoches,Texas

For me the BIG secret to doing this is to turn the record speed down to 16rpm instead of 32rpm. That way the player is playing at half speed AND an octave lower.( this is what I did back in the 70's.)

Gary Shepherd · From: Fox, Oklahoma, USA

Parr, you do the slowdown digitally (on a computer) nowadays. And you still have the same pitch, no octave translation.
_________________
Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000

www.16tracks.com

Pat Dawson · From: Chesapeake Beach, Maryland, USA

Is there tab out yet for Josh Turner's "Firecracker" or Montgomery/Gentry's "Lucky Man" parts?

I just do the "A" to "B" repeat on my old CD player until I can't take it anymore or I actually figure the part out to my satisfaction.

How do you like that "Amazing Slowdowner" software? I saw it advertised a while back for about $50. It is supposed to keep it in the same key also. I think I need that.

Billy Wilson · From: El Cerrito, California, USA

Licks picked out by ear are much more easily memorized than ones learned by tab. For me any way.

Gary Shepherd · From: Fox, Oklahoma, USA

Pat, rather than buying some software specifically designed for that purpose, you could buy some of Cakewalk's recording software. Home Studio would probably suffice.

In the Cakewalk stuff, in addition to being able to record anything you like (including yourself) you have nearly unlimited possibilities including speed change, pitch change, other normal FX, etc.

You'd have a multitrack recorder that will also do the practice stuff. You could use MIDI to create practice tracks, import from audio CDs, oh the list is too long to go on.
_________________
Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000

www.16tracks.com

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Pat, It is amazing. A fiddle player turned me on to it, works as advertised and then some. Quick to learn and painless. But, Gary is correct, there are a lot of programs that will do what it does and a lot more. I was just looking for something quick and simple and pretty much one purpose. They have a beta model out, I tried it first before I bought the full bag. It will work with some of the functions limited, but it will work. Try it first, it's free. Hope your pleased with it. DS

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

I find that multiple dubbings invariably clutter a sound track, and act as a decoy that very effectively leads the lick "hounds" off the trail. The part that tends to become an irksome labor of love, is knowing that 90 or so percent of the recordings could be played; particularly the slower tempos, once the patterns are separated from the barrages of accompaniment. When singling out the steel parts in recordings, there are usually many problem areas to bridge. Sharps and flats are consistent with the majority of recording artists. Someone should remind the studio engineers that many recordings are flat or sharp to 440 pitch. It would be a treat to drop the bar on a perfect pitch in A,C, or G positions.

Pat Dawson · From: Chesapeake Beach, Maryland, USA

Thanks for the "slowdowner" report. My IT skills and interest are not probably what they should be considering IT is the rule of the day but, that being said, my wife just got a brand new iMac OS 10 computer and it has "Garage Band" installed. I dozed off while trying to understand it but maybe I should see what's in there too. I'll check out the "Cakewalk" too.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

I'd guess that any reasonable approach to lick searches, would be to avoid becoming engrossed in a study that neglects other progressive studies. We, the searchers of licks, can find ways to create some vibes, or boot quakings, to the upper echelon groups, (all in the spirit of independent searches for elusive note patterns). Determination and patience, once established as a lifestyle, will go far in helping to achieve difficult goals.

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