Sho-Bud Pro II 1/2 stop

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I have a Pro II that uses the 4-hole bell cranks with clips. I'd like to use my RKR to lower D-->C# in 1/2 steps......It has a weird 1/2 step assembly, I can't get set up. It consists of:

1] small piece of pull rod (2"long) with a 90º bend
2] longer pull rod approx.4" long....no rt angle bend
3] 1 brass adjustable barrel
4] 2 discs w/ set screws that fit on the longer rod
5] 1 spring
6] a pylon mounted to the body about 4"from the crank
7] 1 bellcrank keeper clip

It seems overly complex.....When installed,the unit either falls apart or bottoms out early. Any ideas?????

I think I could simplify the whole thing if I had a just a single 4-6"piece of bent pull rod, rather than this 2 piece rod travesty.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Here's what we are using on our 'buds, thanx to John Coop. Sounds like if yours is bottoming out to soon, you should loosen the collar near the barrel and compress the spring more, thus allowing you more travel. That will also give you a more positive feel.
Can you post a picture of your's??

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Here's 2 pix: As you can see with the installed assembly....it's never gonna work! I think a single rod w/ a 90º bent end connected to the bellcrank with a spring between the pylon and the adjustable barrel might do it.

richard burton · From: Britain

There's some useful information HERE
from a very recent thread

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Here's some better pics of mine. This Pro I has 2 half-stops. Your's and mine works basicaly the same, but by a different approach mechanicaly.

What I see in your top picture is the barrel is correct, just slide it toward the puller when you are ready to set the setscrew, for tuning up. Remember, the barrel setscrew has to clamp on the long rod, and the hook end rod has to travel freely inside the barrel, just out of reach of that setscrew, so you can adjust it for fine tuning.
It appears, Tony, that your's would work if you had both ends meet IN the barrel.

Here is how I adjust the halfstop on my '70 Professional:

1.) Tune your second string to pitch at the keyhead.

2.) next, tune your 2nd string lower to C# at the end plate with your nylon tuner, while you pull your RKR, and if you need more travel, adjust your lever stop at this time.

3.) next, move your knee lever(with your hand) until your tuner says "D", and go a little past it, and place your barrel right there, and tighten your barrel's set screw. Both rod ends will touch somewhere in the middle of the barrel.

4.) now you can fine tune it with the spring end of the barrel to get it exact/dead-on.

5.) move your clamp to make your long spring as tight as you need, to get a good solid "feel" when you activate your knee lever with your knee.

Get the best you can here, and you will get used to it the more you use it. You might tend to "over run" the lever past the "D" note with your knee a little, until you get the "feel" of it set in your mind.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Tony, I edited some more info in my above post, to help clarify a few things. Email me if you need a little more help. Smile

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I'll try again, but there is just not a lot of room.

Keep in mind that the keeper clip (the clip which keeps the bent rod in the puller...see the other bellcranks) extends back quite a bit....so I don't think the 2 rods can meet in the middle......I still think a single rod like yours would work well.

Also, I need a less stiff spring, as it takes quite a bit of force to compress this one. When I jury-rig the assembly, the knee lever feels like a truck clutch.

I think the final word lies with: John Coop, Ricky Davis or Jeff Surrat.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Tony, you don't need a lot of room. Snap your black clip on and bring your barrel to it. You can adjust the longer rod to whereever it works, and there's your "room", unless the long rod hit's the pedal 8 cross rod. Then you would have to move the mounting bracket. All you need is about a 1/4" of movement.

Set up properly, the spring will feel right, they are supposed to be stiff. If you use a soft spring, you won't feel the halfstop--then what's the point?

You do not have the right kind of undercarrage, particularly the pullers, to use the style puller I have. Hang in there, you'll get figured out.

Clyde Lane · From: Glasgow, Kentucky, USA

Tony you have the barrel reversed in the top pic. The layout should be like the 2nd pic. The 1/2 tone is tuned between the barrel and the brass collar. Set the rod, spring and collars on the mount first with a little tension on the spring. Then slide the threaded end of the collar on. Last, slide the bent rod into the barrel and hook to bellcrank. Leave about 1/8" between barrel and brass collar and tighten set screw. GOOD LUCK
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Clyde Lane

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Come to think of it, the barrel would work either way you put it, wouldn't it??

Doug Jones · From: Oregon & Florida

Hi Tony. I encountered the same problem when I was setting up my Super-Pro (same undercarriage and 3R-2L changer). My steel came with the same rigging/setup as in the pics above. I have that double lower on my RKR as well as 1/2 step lower string 9 E9 and 1/2 step raise string 4 C6. What I did was find that "happy" median point by having the 1st half lower of E9 string 2 work on its own before the other changes on the 2 other strings started to pull. This took some experimentation with bellcrank hole and changer finger hole selection of all 3 string's pullrods before I found that "happy" point. As a result, the tension-feel stop of the 1st half lower was accomplished and I no longer use the additional rigging. Note: the D# to D lower is not perfectly in tune for studio work, but is more than close enough for live application. Hope this alternative helps. -DJ-

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Here's what I had in mind, using a single half stop rod (red): The stop is set by adjusting the barrel length to hit the spring at "D"....unfortunately, I have bigger fish to fry (see changer problems)

[v.2 w/ collar for preloading spring]

Clyde Lane · From: Glasgow, Kentucky, USA

Tony the spring needs to be under a little tension before the barrel hits it. If not the feel stop will be to soft and you will not be able to get the 1/2 tone even close..
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Clyde Lane

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I can put a collar between the spring and barrel to pre-load the spring..(see revised figure)

Clyde Lane · From: Glasgow, Kentucky, USA

Yes, that will work. You will have to adjust the preload so that "you" can feel it. Good Luck
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Clyde Lane

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Tony, That won't work unless you have slack between D# and D. D is when you should feel the halfstop kick-in. As it sits now in your diagram, you only have adjustable pressure on your knee lever. As your diagram indicates, you will not be able to get a halfstop feel. You need the two piece rod meeting in your barrel tuner to accomplish this. Good luck.

Clyde Lane · From: Glasgow, Kentucky, USA

James the slack is between the barrel and brass collar. IF the rods meet inside the barrel it will not work. The rod that the spring is mounted on must float free inside the barrel and as I said the 1/2 tone tuning is between the barrel and the first brass collar. I had the same set up on my LDG for 25 years until I did away with it by adding a 9th string lower.
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Clyde Lane

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Clyde, We maybe saying the same thing, but in a different way--and no offence 'ment. According to the diagram drawn above, I do not see what you are saying. But no matter, 'cause Tony has a couple ways to try out. What's important is he sees success. Smile

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I think James is right.

The single rod system will work w/o the spring pre-load collar. In which case a spring stiff enough to feel w/ the knee must be used.

If you want to pre-load the spring, than the 2-rod system is necessary

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

I'm sure there are other ways to get a halfstop feel. I'm sure Clyde's way works, too. Just a different approach, which is cool. Like skinnin' cats----------------------------------------

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

E9th second string 1/2 stop is in......... I used the 2 rods w/ preloaded spring (see revised figure above). Problem solved!...Thanks James and all .

The C6th changer is another story.........

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

All's well that ends well. Smile

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