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Topic: recording your improvisations as a way to practice |
Cody Campbell
From:
Nashville, Tennessee
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Posted 23 Nov 2007 11:05 pm |
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When I play music, by myself, I hear things I like but I never remember them. I could record myself, then stop as soon as I hear something good and then learn it it. But I think that would be sort of like cheating. I know that many people do record themselves, as a way of practicing.
What do you think of using this method of improving your ability to improvise?
There are different degrees of how incessantly one does this. You could record a minute or two of playing (or more) and go back and learn a small part/lick/etc. Or your could do it after thirty seconds of playing, ( even fewer). |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 6:41 am
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Some folks regard recording as cheating, when it comes to steel guitar. But my only good licks are unplanned. Having recorded them, I can go back and 'learn' the lick. I think recording is a great way to go as practice.
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Larry Lorows
From:
Zephyrhills,Florida, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 6:44 am
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Hi Cody, I really feel that what ever works for you is the best way for sure. There is no such thing as cheating if it helps you learn faster. Larry
_________________
U12 Williams keyless 400
Vegas 400, Nashville 112, Line 6 pod xt |
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Richard Sevigny
From:
Salmon Arm, BC, Canada
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 8:41 am
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The only downside I can see is that you could end up reliant on your licks to the point where you would only recycle the "good licks" and forget to be creative.
The objective of any good player should be to be able to play what he hears in his head 
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If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.
-Albert Einstein |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 9:16 am
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I think it's invaluable. Especially on an instrument as physically complicated as a steel guitar, playing and listening can get sort of separated. There's a four-letter word that starts with "t" and rhymes with "bone" and fits in a can of worms (which I don't wanna open right now) - recording yourself is a great help. Stick a mike across a big room, stick it right in the speaker, play with lots of bass, play with lots of treble etc. - what's to lose? 
| Quote: |
| Some folks regard recording as cheating, when it comes to steel guitar. |
Other folks regard recording as employment, proof of employment, making music etc. 
Last edited by David Mason on 24 Nov 2007 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 10:19 am
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Good and timely feedback is critical to learning, and a good recording made and listened to immediately and over a period of time is, IMO, the best way to get that. As they say, "The tape don't lie."
I believe I learn more from listening to recordings of myself playing than anything else. As long as you're honest with yourself, there is no such thing as "cheating" in the learning process, IMHO.
I just set up a Roland SI-24 recording interface into my desktop computer. I have it set up so I can quickly drag any .wav file from the computer onto one track, and then play along and/or record on a second track, and hear the mixed result while I'm playing or later, either switching speakers in or using headphones. The sound quality is just fine coming straight out of a Tubefex or Pod, and with the headphones, I can work on this at 3am without bugging a soul. Shoulda done this a long time ago. This is a few year old "not the latest and greatest" interface, and so can be had pretty reasonably - but works just fine. |
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Cody Campbell
From:
Nashville, Tennessee
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 1:00 pm
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Great replies. Keep the opinions coming.
I don't actually play steel; I play piano. So the tone thing is not much of an issue. I'm basically talking about short little parts, or licks. If I record myself and stop to learn a good lick, then it would really help build my musical vocabulary.
Richard, I liked your reply saying to be sure I'm not just recycling the good licks. I feel like I already have this problem, of "recycling" licks that I like. If there's a lick that goes with a certain chord change (and I have the lick 'under my fingers') then the tendency is to play the lick (or some variation of it) any time that chord change happens. [For exmaple: the quick VImaj chord before the last 4 bars of a 12-bar blues. The tendency is to emphasize the note that makes the VI a major. If it's a C blues, then the note is a C#]. Just one small example.
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Back to the subject, I think in jazz, country, or whatever. Recording myself improvising and learning licks would make it very easy to improve my playing. There's NO WAY I could do that just using my memory.
But again, ISN'T IT KIND OF CHEATING? None of the greats used a tape recorder; they just played. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 2:48 pm
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I seem to recall that Les Paul used a recorder some....
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Papa Joe Pollick
From:
Swanton, Ohio
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 4:20 pm
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I decided,a long time ago,that the three most valuable tools for one who wanted to improve upon his musical abilty were, not in any particular order, an accurate tuner,a fretless insturment,and a recording machine.
When I try to tell people that I don't hear myself they can't understand what I mean.By recording my practice and listening,I can catch all those silly "crutch" licks and find something new to play.It's also useful if I "accidently" find a cool lick or chop and can't remember how I did it.My machine is always on when I'm practicing.
As for cheating,you're cheating yourself if you don't use every thing at your disposal to improve your playing.JMHO..PJ |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 5:08 pm
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| Quote: |
| ISN'T IT KIND OF CHEATING? None of the greats used a tape recorder; they just played. |
If all of the greats never got recorded, how do you even know they're great? How do you even know who they are, if all of the great music happened long ago in smoky late-night jams.... 
But seriously, it seemed to me that at the time Buddy Emmons was always up on the latest gadgets, if you think for a minute that Paul Franklin never listens to the playback - just hits his doodle, packs up the stuff, "Just send me the check, chump, I'm-a goin' fishin" - I wonder if you might have a wee-bit romanticized idea of what "work" consisted of for "the greats." I do think that over-production can suck the gas right out of an album, and I do really think that practicing spontaneaty is the way, or one important way to get better at it - so how do you know when you're repeating too much?  Roll tape....
What the greats had a lot of (besides, ahem, greatness) and what is sorely lacking in my situation at least is constant, live playing opportunities. It's not going to happen here, often, so I tape. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 5:17 pm
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Cheating ? I don't think so.
I record practice sessions all the time , I don't always listen back but there are times when I know I used the cranial region for something different or a variation, THEN I listen back...I look at this as a step towards creation, am I doing it or not ? Does it fit or does it not ?
If you practice and record, at least you have the chance to listen back, if you practice and DON'T record..well....not much hope there...
I have been working on two classic songs that I am going to publish soon, each time I play them and record them something new comes out...now thats a problem as I am trying to complete the projects !
oh, what am I using ? A Boss Micro BR...easy record, easier DELETE  |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 6:55 pm
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One of the big features of top recording musicians is that they hear themselves all the time - they're plastered all over tons of records. I just don't see any way that is "cheating" either.
Learning is a process. IMO - to learn, one must do "whatever it takes". Respectfully - if something helps, I can't see any reason why someone shouldn't do it out of some kind of - IMO, misguided - fear of "intellectual dishonesty".
There is a school of thought in education that it is pedagogically "better" to learn from original source material the way the masters learned, beginning with the earliest ideas and approaches and moving historically through the material. The best practical test-bed of this idea I know of is St. John's College in Annapolis and Santa Fe. But even with that philosophy, I can't imagine that anybody would think that strong feedback about ones learning is not a good idea. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 7:37 pm
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| Quote: |
| Some folks regard recording as cheating, when it comes to steel guitar. But my only good licks are unplanned. |
When I record I spontaneously record the whole song 8 times on 8 tracks and then mix them down. I usually never take over an hour on the whole project and its done and I usually never think about it again ever. If you call that cheating I've heard plenty of stuff presented here on the Forum that could use a little cheating. Show me someone who has time to spend hours and hours getting the song perfect so they can play it that way one time on a recording and I'll show you someone who has a lot more free time than most of us. If you started and stop the recorder 100 times and took a month to record the song how is that cheating, you played the licks you recorded. Playing someone's tabs on a recording and calling them your own is cheating. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 25 Nov 2007 2:29 am
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[quote="Bo Legg"]
| Quote: |
| Show me someone who has time to spend hours and hours getting the song perfect so they can play it that way one time on a recording and I'll show you someone who has a lot more free time than most of us. |
Actually Bo, and I don't actually disagree with your routine, , someone who takes more time may just not have the same urgency to finish a project as others do.
There may be times I play a track 3 or 4 times in one sitting and then don't play it again for over a week. A week later I may approach the track in a totally different way.
It really depends on the PURPOSE of the project. I personally have a few I have done in a few hours and others which I never completed ! |
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