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Topic: Dekley Bellcranks |
Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2007 10:43 pm |
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Someone asked me to make some Dekley bellcranks and I offered to do it. The originals are 3 welded pieces. I was planning to make them from one solid piece of 6061 but not I'm not so sure that would be the best way to do it. Any ideas? Frankly, the originals don't look very good to me. I think the design could be improved a lot. But I do want to match up what's already on his guitar.
I also wanted to post the pictures here to ask some pro machinists what they think would be the right way to do this.
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2007 8:51 am
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I would definitely make them one piece. They could still be made to look original. Is that a small keyway in the bore?
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 20 Nov 2007 11:21 am
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Ideally, use a horizontal miller and a 'side & face' cutter to mill the slot, if you are making them from one piece
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Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2007 2:21 pm
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Yes, there's a keyway.
I'm not sure my little Taig will turn a big side mill but I was looking into that too. I'm considering several options on this one. I think tonight I'll try milling to identical pieces and try gluing them together.
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 20 Nov 2007 2:41 pm
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If I was gonna make this puppy from scratch, I think I would machine a blank out that is two at once. That is, one blank that makes two bell cranks facing each other on the flat/square end as mirror images, then cut the thing in half.
Drill all the holes first,
Clean out the remaining slot(s) with a mill
Keep the depth of cut low and make many passes...
Provide clearance at the "collar" section for the innermost pullrod.
Cut in half at the midpoint.
Bake at 350 degrees for 4 hours until golden brown.
(I already made a jig to make the pullrod bushings from 1/4" OD x 1/8" ID bronze bushings...)
(Dekley D-10, S-10, and S-10 student model) |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2007 2:54 pm
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Your Taig will work with large milling cutters.
You need to machine a mandrel to hold the cutter, which you can do by using one of the slitting saw abrbor blanks Taig sells -- they are 1.00" diameter and screw into the headstock and are straight. You can use one inch shaft collars and mill a keyway into the arbor to keep the milling cutter in place. Depending upon the diameter of the cutter, you may need a riser block for the head stock.
I kinda wish I still had my old Taig.
Chris |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 21 Nov 2007 11:03 am
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Gary,My Dekley SD-12 has these bell cranks MSA? and my S-10 has the ones that you've pictured,Stu 
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2007 9:20 pm
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Hey Stu, would you mind sending me some more pictures of the underside of that guitar, or even both if you have time?
Well, it's not much but I did get something done today. Here's my 3rd attempt at getting this part right. Finally got the contour and holes right. The 3/8" hole is a little tight but that's an easy fix.
I did make my part a few thousandths longer than the original and I did it intentionally. I didn't like the way the part looked at the bottom end.
I suppose now I have to figure out the best way to cut the slot for the pullrods. I think I'm going to vise the pieces in the orientation in shown in the first picture in this post and just slot it. The radius of the cutter will leave some relief for the pullrod angle. If not, I'll figure out something else later.
Anyone have a good idea for cutting the keyway in the 3/8" hole?
Any questions or comments on this one?
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2007 10:00 pm
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If I was making these as exact duplicates, I'd use a rotary table. Indicate your center hole over the mill's spindle, then walk off. You may have to fixture this thing above the turntable to keep the slotting cutter's spindle nose from hitting the table. DON'T 'climb-cut' this or you'll probably wind up with a face full of everything. Use WD-40 for a cutting fluid. If the slotting cutter gets even one flute clogged up, the cutter will jack-hammer the part to death. The 'ears' of the crank will tend to spread a few thou as a result of the burnishing action of the cutter. I'd make a half dozen or so passes rather than taking the entire slot in one cut. It can be cut in one pass, but you'll notice more of a spreading of the ears if you do. Hint--Take an Arkansas stone (no, not Bill Clinton) and break the dead-sharp corners on the slotting cutter. This will leave a very small radius at the bottom of the slot...great for removing a potential fracture point.
PRR |
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Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2007 10:05 pm
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Sounds like you may have done this once before, no?
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2007 10:31 pm
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I've not had to make these types of bellcranks before, but I have had to make similar parts and use similar techniques on parts throughout the 45-plus years I've been in the machine trades. I have made cranks like this with only a single ear for the Whitney guitars, but that only required a conventional end mill. Still the rotary table was employed. The vast gear reduction on most tables gives you a lot of feel and control over the cutting action. Just make certain these things are fixtured well so they don't move after the cutting begins. Nothing elaborate, just rigid. Slotting cutters work very well when everything is rigid. Vibration or chatter will tear them up and can cause a real train wreck. Don't be afraid to kick up the RPM's to about twice what you'd use for mild steel. Some people believe that because you're cutting aluminum you should have that cutter cranked up to the speed of light. That's not true. I also have discovered that WD-40 is the very best cutting fluid you can use on aluminum. I've tried all the old timey fluids over the years...lanolin-based hand lotion, kerosene, crankcase drainings, 'sulphur'oil, animal fat-rendered soluble oil,you name it. WD-40 outshines them all by a mile. Hope this helps.
PRR |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 22 Nov 2007 11:44 am
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Gary,here's some more of the SD-12,It will take me a few days to get the S-10 it's at a friend's house.I think that I've got a good pic of the slot for you...I have one crank that isn't being used yet,also if you look at the group of cranks there are a couple of them that have an angled top,It works on a knee lever,maybe it takes up less room?Stu
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2007 1:05 pm
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Anyone ever start something only to realize that you had started it all wrong? I think I slightly miscalculated on at least one of these attempts. What do you think?
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 22 Nov 2007 1:22 pm
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Gary,I have no mechanical abilities at all so I am amazed at what you created already,don't give up,Stu
And eat a lot of turkey today 
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2007 1:39 pm
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Apparently, my mechanical skills currently leave something to be desired as well. But I do intend to stay after it. I suppose I'll get it eventually.
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Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2007 10:12 pm
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Ok I tried some slots on a couple of junked pieces tonight. I did the 4th one (counting from the left) in 2 different passes. Laid it just like it's sitting in the picture, cut half way down, turned it over and did the other half. I didn't like how that turned out.
On the middle pieces, I turned the round end down - stood it up vertically. That worked out a lot better. Both sides were cut smoothly. However, either my mill or my vise added a slight lean while cutting. One side goes from 0.069" to 0.081". The other half goes from 0.097" to 0.083". That's not "a lot" of difference but it's enough to be visible if you're looking for it. I doubt anyone would ever notice while just checking out the under side of a pedal steel.
I don't have an edge finder. I suppose that I should invest in one. It would make centering pieces easier. I also don't have any slotting cutters so it's all end mills right now. I guess with a slot cutter, I could do everything without having to clamp my pieces more than once.
Any questions, comments, or tips for me now? I intend to get this right eventually.
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Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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