tab, or no tab ??

james sluder · From: Tennessee, USA

For any psg player..how many psg players have learned to play just by listning & hunting it on your psg..not using any tab.i have been trying to learn this beautifull sounding insturment for about 7 months..i have tryed tab but it makes no sence to me..i have been told by other players near me that if i don't learn it from tab then i will never get it right..but i am learning it slowely just by listning & hunting it on mine..it might not sound like Mr LOYD GREEN but i get the melody close any way..

Any comments will be helpfull..thanks !

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

James

tab can give you the way to play the intro or the turnaround of a song the way you hear it on a record
but i didn't really start playing very well until i started playing with sound tracks..find out what key the song is being played in and the chord progression then just start playing along with it
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Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

For steel guitar, I use tab to learn how a phrase is being played. My ears can get me close.

I am pleasantly surprised by tab. It shows me ways I would not thought of.

I especially like the TAB that has the regular treble clef music notation. I get the sound in my head from the regular music notation. I can play it on guitar or steel or piano.

TaB shows me HOW and WHERE on the steel.

Ron

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

I wish I had the ability to learn a song by ear but I don't so for me tab really helps. I really admire guys that learned pedal steel back in the day before the Internet and all the wonderful courses that are available today.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

Learning tab can really help,don't you know.
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A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

James I would hunt down a teacher, every teacher has there own way. Plus as a added bonus you will learn things alot faster that would have taken you years to find out, now compair that to tab.

If you played a 6 string guitar then I could see how your ear would carry over.

Tab is good and very easy but it can also be a crutch.

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

A.J. wrote

Tab is good and very easy but it can also be a crutch

that is a very true statment. it took me a long time to learn just how true.
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Terry Wood · From: Lebanon, MO

When I started there was no internet, no instructional courses.

Next, I learned mainly by listening to a few steel records L.P.s cause there were no CDs in those days. Those LPs were by Lloyd Green, Jimmy Day, and later I joined Tom Bradshaw's Steel Guitar Record Club and bought everyone he put out. I also learned a few steel guitar licks from two or three area steel players, but we lived so far apart and I seldom got to get with them or see them play.

Then in early to mid 1980s Keith Hilton approached me and asked me to write some tab instructional courses for his publishing company. Doug Jernigan was with him then too. Of course Keith went on to invent several great steel products and Doug is a world class player and Steel Guitar Hall of Fame Member.

Recently, I have started tabbing a few songs out for some correspondence teaching and we are in the process of doing some new instructional DVDs that will be released in coming months.

I recommend learning to play the steel guitar by any means that works for you the student. Also I dare say we all will never learn everything that is on the steel guitar. It is a very complex and beautiful instrument and as my friend the late Speedy West said, "It is one heck of a machine!"

GOD bless!

Terry Wood

Bryan Daste · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I find that tab can be very helpful for learning songs (and exercises), but I also think the process of transcribing or "tabbing out" a song myself does wonders for my PSG thinking. Being able to pick something out by ear and then translate it to paper combines a few disparate skills into one exercise. Try finding a lick or intro you like and learning it by ear, then write it out. I keep all my favorites in a binder for future reference!

If you really want to get hardcore, transcribe using both tab and standard notation Smile

Ronald Moore · From: Mindoro, Wisconsin, USA

Using tablature is a good way to learn how someone played a certain phrase but I won't use tab to work up a tune. Learning a whole tune by tab is learning it someone elses way, not my own. I've had people ask me where I found the tab for tunes I've done at steel shows. I tell them it's in my head, and it's true. Ron

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Some really great players play entirely by ear. Each of us is different. Use whatever method works for you.
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james sluder · From: Tennessee, USA

For all the replys to this post i thank each of you.
i have played 6 string electric guitar for several years just by ear. i guess thats what i have in my head...but i will keep looking the tab over as i can see by your replys that it can be a big help.

again thanks to everyone..GOD bless

Please close this post...~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~James

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Most if not all known elite steel guitarists I know, have started out NOT using tablature as a means of learning the instrument. They listened, analyzed, copied of records and the radio and where shown by other fellow steelers. This is why the instrument developed so drastically from the 20's to the 70's. Then tablature came along... and what new great playing influences do you see pop up after the musical generation of Paul Franklin?

Tablature gives the musically untrained student the wrong image. Actually, it sets the student's mind in an erroneous state of mind, makes him overlook the obvious repeating relationship occurring in music.
There are several reasons to this:
While tablature seems to have a 2 dimensional layout like steel guitar, it plain doesn't. The, on steel guitar so important left to right axis is used to represent time and that in a poor manner too.
Furthermore, on tablature, the lacking left to right axis movements are represented by fret numbers based on the nut... no matter what key the song is in. Again, a completely unrelated and in 99% of the cases wrong message.
The student believes he is learning to play the instrument and music in general. Actually, the thing he is training the most with this practice is to convert or transpose two very different graphical situations; the input from the tablature and what he is trying to execute on the instrument. Really learning to play, becomes 2nd, 3rd or what ever along the priorities. Be aware what you practice, this is what you may eventually become good at.

I could accept the existence of this mean of communicating musical information, when video, dvd and internet data was a thing of the far future or not affordable... however these times have long gone now. Everybody who can afford a steel today and afford a $49.99 dvd player, a VCR or access to this forum, youtube or other graphical sources of information. Equally, recording and copying gear has become very affordable to teachers.

Tablature is worse than a waste of practice time, I've actually seen it kill musical thinking predisposition, which in some cases took years to recuperate and start over really learning to play music.
In my opinion tablature should bear a big black warning by the surgeon general... just like cigarettes and shouldn't be allowed to be sold to minors and people who do not already have a very clear understanding of music.

Sorry if this needels anyone, but this is my most sincere opinion.
... J-D.

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

Scott Howard · From: Georgetown, TN, USA

First let me say I am only speaking about my own playing!! I agree that it can be a crutch.I never played any other instrument or learned music. I learned by tab and played in differant church groups over the year . They always had my dad in the grop and he would just tab out what to play and when to play. I had no problems until I tried to play in a group without him. I am lost!!! If the song I know is in a different key I'm lost !! I have all kind of licks and can't put them anywhere!! Very discouraging!!!
This is getting better as time goes on but I feel I never learned to PLAY the guitar I just learned a bunch of movements. I do well with tab and still buy courses , It is a much needed item for the steel and you can learn differant ways of doing the same thing.
I feel it is more important to learn WHAT and WHY you are doing given movements as you play the TAB.I have not tried to learn any Tab in several months but just try and practice with the radio or tracks.
Trying to copy licks from the radio is a great learning tool.
I wish I had it to do all over again but I am trying to learn the needed foundation that I missed. This is just my own opinion about MY own playing!
Any thoughts on how to overcome the problem?

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

[quote="Andy Sandoval"]

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I had played lap steel for many years before I began to tackle the pedal steel.
I was like a ship lost at sea until I got ahold of some of instruction/tab books by Scotty. It was then that I began to see the light and got a feel for the instrument.
Tab is MOST certainly a benefit in getting a jump start on this most complex instrument!

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

J. D. & Scott

i totally agree with you learning with tab is a big mistake. just try to play 10 songs using the tabs
(no one has a memory that good) ...learning by playing along with sound tracks works much better . all you need is a starting point ( what key ) and a basic understanding of chord progression and if you work at it you can make it sound pretty good even tho it may not be perfect, you will start learning how to play . about the only thing i think tabs are good for is learning signiture intros & turnarounds
or maybe a single song if you only want to play it in 1 key.
Erv, you have some of the best tabs out there
but i think a newbie trying to play using tab alone will have a lot of trouble ( i know i did ) my playing was jerky and disconnected, i had no sense of timing at all,
after you get a feel as some call it for the steel, tab can be a very useful tool. but i firmly beleive that by trying to learn using tab alone is one of the reasons for the high drop out rate for new steel players
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

David Doggett · Posted 19 Nov 2007 8:18 am

If you don't have an experienced hands-on teacher, tabs can be a good way for a beginner to learn the standard way to play the instrument and what the instrument is capable of. They also can save some time in figuring out a few complicated passages of interest. There are usually multiple ways to play a passage, and seeing the exact way the original was played can be helpful. But you have to quickly move beyond tab and start learning to play by ear along with tracks, CDs, the radio, and with a live group. I can't imagine trying to find and learn the tabs for all the songs you will want to play. If you dont learn to improvise live on songs you have never tried, you will be forever stuck in your bedroom playing the same memorized solos to yourself.

Bryan Daste · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I'll chime in again in support of using tab in a different way - I do find that learning from videos is easier and more intuitive. But some videos, like the Bruce Bouton one, don't have a booklet or any printed material as a visual guide to what's going on onscreen (the Newman courses usually do). So I find it helpful sometimes to take a more complicated exercise, after learning from the video, and to tab it out by hand or using a program like Sibelius. Then I can file that exercise away, and weeks later when I think, "What should I practice today? How about a blocking exercise..." I can look through my binder and find the tab to refresh my memory, without having to dig up the video, find the exact passage, sit through it all again, etc.

Also, I think tab can be helpful for someone just starting out because it's so much fun to work on songs you know - that's why I like the tab section of the Forum so much. Something for everyone.

That said, I've had plenty of musical training on other instruments (piano, guitar) using standard notation, private lessons, group classes, videos, and yes even tab - years before I ever touched a pedal steel. So I can't comment on if it helps/hurts a true beginner's musicality. But I do think it's a useful tool if approached musically. With tab, it's up to YOU to figure out what you're playing (intervals, chords, notes, even rhythms) once you have the song under your fingers. Kind of a nice challenge. Not for everyone.

Dave Ristrim · From: Whites Creek, TN

A lot has already been said, but I agree with most of what JD Sauser had to say. Yes, most older pros did not learn from tab, but there wasn't any around then to learn from. This forced them to learn the instrument from the ground up by ear and by watching other players of the day. Some learned music theory, some did not, but most know a whole hell of a lot because of the hard work they put into learning their craft.
I agree that relying on tab too much will drag you down. Of course, it seems that there are many on the forum who are more of a "steel player/hobbiest" (no offense meant) than a true proffessional, whatever that means. Tab is a great shortcut for them to learn the "cool" licks the pros use everyday. I use tab myself as a way of archiving weird licks and solos etc. of things I've learned so as not to forget them and have to spend the time to learn them again.
In this day and age, there are lots of shortcuts, some I agree with others I do not.
Look at GarageBand and other looping programs for the computer. Someone that knows nothing about music composition can tap a few keys and come up with something that sounds an aweful like music. Then again, GarageBand is awesome when writing a song. You can call up drums, and keyboards etc and save yourself tons of time and money for a quick demo. Of course it'll still need to be cut with REAL musicians if it cuts the mustard.
To each his own, but I started with a reel-to-reel tape recorder slowing things down to learn all the subtle nuances of the quick passages. I use The Amazing Slow Downer now, but again, I still will tab out certain things I think are cool, but may not use for a while.
Peace and enjoy,
Dave

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

i can well remember when i was just begining , thinking " how on earth do they remember where all these note's are " ..... Meaning how can any one remember that on 8th fret press B pedal pick the 5th string then pick the 4th string with the E lever and so forth ...i would learn one song go to the next one and end up forgetting everything i had spent so much time learning on the first one. it became an endless cycle. having no musical background i was sooooooo lost
but once i started playing with sound tracks things started to make a lot more sense fast...even tho i was not playing very well, i could get a grasp on what was going on...the chord progression, the timing ,the phrasing and that is what makes it work
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Dave Stagner · From: Minnesota, USA

Whether or not tab is a Bad Thing is all about how you use it. Classical Indian musicians would sneer at us for having ANY written notation at all... they think all music must be learned by ear!

On a complex instrument like the pedal steel, tab can really help make it clear how certain things are done. But it's up to the player to take those tabbed-out ideas and turn them into something personal. To me, it's no different than learning from records, which can lead to the same dangerous place - copying without uniqueness.

I've used tab to learn things off and on for most of the time I've played guitar. It hasn't prevented me from developing what I like to think is a highly personal voice.
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Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

There is tab and then there is tab.

When I write tab, I always include the musical notation with key signature, chords and lyrics.

I have been told by several steelers that they have learned more from playing from my tab than from a lot of instructional material they have purchased.

After playing tab with the above features, you get an understand as to how it all hangs together.

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