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Topic: dating fender 400 |
Tor Arve Baroy
From:
Norway
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ebb
From:
nj
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Posted 31 Oct 2007 3:13 pm |
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| 1963 or later. non original placement of fender logo on pedal bar. non original bell crank peeking out under the front apron. suspicious looking angle of pedal rods. this and lack of underside pictures would not make this worth 9,995.00 NOK=1,860.31 USD |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 31 Oct 2007 6:22 pm
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IMHO, the decals look to be original, and in their proper positions. Also, I'd guess the bellcrank that's showing is stock (late) Fender item. Guitar probably made in '70, or perhaps '71. Pedal board is from an earlier 800 (though the guitar is a 400). Only 3 rods and 4 pedals, pretty rough shape (except for the frame). I'm certain this guitar was on ebay a few years back, and the years haven't improved it a bit. Likely worth several hundred as a "parts guitar"...very little as a player.
Clearly, tha last player that bought it was fooled out of some money, and has never bothered to fix up this rather "sad example". |
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Tor Arve Baroy
From:
Norway
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Posted 1 Nov 2007 1:06 am
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thanks for the help, I am in the process of setting up this guitar and it is now a good playing guitar, altough a little rough in the finish.
The piece visible under the front apron is the pedal/wire-bracket. Original fender, but wire, pedal and pedalrod is missing.
Angle of rods are now changed.
The guitar is soundwise very good, there is a small clip there, Im not the best player, but I like the sound. I know that E9 setup on these guitars is not "standard", but it can be easilly changed. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 1 Nov 2007 6:02 am
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I think ebb and Donny got it pretty well - you can't really date it unless you check the codes on the potentiometers, if they are original - that might give you a date that's within a couple of years (Fender bought lots of pots and kept them in bins, and the 1 meg pots used in these guitars were not big movers, so pots might sit for a year or two after purchase). Serial numbers mean nothing - the only thing you can be sure of is the basic platform is post-'63 and the pedal rack is pre-'63, and from the wrong guitar.
I don't agree that it wouldn't make a decent player, though. I bought one like that and with another parts guitar made a 9/2, 2-pickup "Sneakycaster" that plays very well and has a nice tonal range. They are SO easy to work on and make minor (or even major) mods on that turning one into a fun "player" is a piece of cake. The limiting factor on the later ones like this iis the pedal-type; those are very hard to find, and if you want to add pedals you really have two choices - find a "beater" as a "donor" or switch out all the pedals/rods for some other manufacturer's type.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Nov 2007 10:12 am
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| Quote: |
| the only thing you can be sure of is the basic platform is post-'63 and the pedal rack is pre-'63, and from the wrong guitar. |
Pedal rack is not pre-'63.  |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 3 Nov 2007 11:35 am
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| Quote: |
| Pedal rack is not pre-'63. |
Duh...typing too fast for my own good, since there were no pre-63 800's...
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2007 7:48 pm
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Here are the rod and pedal parts for the newer-type 400 as an example. PS, please don't outbid "silverface"...
...that's me!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320179240561&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=011
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Craig Stenseth
From:
Naperville, Illinois, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2007 6:26 am
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| What year was the 'cutoff' between the old type pedals (stamped/chrome) and the new ones (like the auction Jim linked to)? Is this also the same year Fender changed the pickups and the scale length? |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2007 7:25 am
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The changeover was sort of phased in in late '63/early '64. The pickup and scale length changed first on the 400 and 1000, and there have been a few examples seen of guitars with newer top-ends and old-style pedals/rods as they (especially in the Leo days) used up old parts, leaving little to no backstock for replacement. Officially, Fender says '64 was the changeover with the intro of the 800 and 2000 10-string models, when all 4 (400, 1000, 800 and 2000) displayed the jag-style pickup and black pedals.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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