Arthritis and Steel Guitar. Help!

bob drawbaugh · From: scottsboro, al. usa

I was diagnosed today with sever arthritis in my hands. The Doctor was not very encouraging. He told me it would only get worse since I'm less than 50 years old. Crying or Very sad

. I asked him what I could do for the pain while I play. He told me to stop playing if it hurts. The pain is worse on the six string than it is on the steel. But it's still to bad to play for long periods of time.

I know some on the forum have talked about treatments that have given them relief and got them playing again. Before I throw in the towel I would like some input from the forum members, on treatment options that you have used.

If you don't want to post you can send me an email.

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Bob - It is very important that you see a doctor that specializes in arthritis, not just a family physician. There are several good drugs out there that are very successful in fighting this horrible disease. Some of those drugs can be harmful to you if not administered properly. Send me an email if you want more specific information. My wife was diagnosed with arthritis several years ago and she is in better shape now than she was back then. We can thank the specialist that she sees for her good health.

Lee, from South Texas

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

You may want to read a book by Dr.John Heinerman, Globe Communications Corp, 5401 N. W. Broken Sound Blvd., Boca Raton, FL 33487: HEALING POWER OF HERBS.
No product selling........just information.

JamesMCross · From: Houston, Texas, USA

Hey Bob:

I've struggled with arthritis for 10 years, it hit me hardest about the same time I switched to steel from 6-string. Arthritis runs in my family. I have what is called psoriatic arthritis, where my skin is very dry and is frequently cracked and bleeding at the extremities, and my joints are inflamed constantly.

I was also advised by my physician to quit playing if it hurt me to play. I did not take this advice and found a new physician. Since then, I have found a few ways to mitigate the pain.

I take a NSAID called Diclofenac every other day, 75 mg. This helps to mitigate the inflammation, but it does nothing to help the aching in my hands, elbows, knees, and fingers when I play. After a Friday/Saturday gig, I literally can not pick up a pencil at work until about Wednesday morning.

What helps me the most is daily exercise, even if it is just a 30-minute walk around the block, stretching, and drinking lots of water every day. This will keep the joints limbered up enough to make a reasonable attempt at playing steel on my weekend gigs.

I try to focus on technique while playing, i.e., right hand position, blocking, bar slants, etc. This helps me to ignore the pain in my hands and fingers, but there are times when I just have to stop playing all together. This turns out to be a good thing for me, it keeps me from over-playing and helps me to concentrate on getting the best phrases I can put together ready to play when the time comes.

I am now 51, been playing avg. 5-6 nights a month for a few years now, and I plan to keep on playing until I can't hold onto the bar anymore.

Good luck, and do not despair!

Jody Sanders · From: Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.

I am 77 and am still playing 8 to 10 nites a month. Had real problems for a while due to arthritis. I keep it under control, by taking Hyaluronic Acid, Omega 3 oil , fish oil. Eve, primrose oil, vitamen E and Magnesium supplements. I know this sounds strange, but I learned of this thru a very, very, prominate steel player. Jody.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Do some more research on this, for sure, but I had arthritis stemming from a badly broken wrist some thirty years ago.

I used this therapy about once every two to three years exactly on the point of soreness, and haven't been troubled with it for the last ten.

Like I said, do as much research as you can on it, and don't discount it out of hand.

Be careful.

I have less tolerance for it than I did when I was younger, but it's worked totally and fantastically every time.

The only other advice I have is be VERY careful of Ibprofen.

I call it "poor man's heroin" because it's very addictive, and it lessens your body's defenses to inflamation. Taken in more than moderate doses it stops your liver from functioning.

I took small doses daily for a long time, for dental pain and it was pretty bad fot my nervous system. It harms your hearing too.

I haven't had to take any for most of a year, and I don't plan on it.

Aspirin is much healthier.

Smile

EJL

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

psoriatic arthritis here as well. 33 years old diagnosed 5 years ago. Turned to steel as my pro instrument after dropping regular guitar. I avoid the drugs now because one of the biologics nearly caused me to lose an arm due to an infection. loss of a limb tends to be a bummer on musicianship Smile

with my type of arthritis, NSAIDS actually flare the joint issues and skin issues. Avoid them. Go as natural as possible.

I was on diclofenac, it's one of the no nos like ibuprofen and aspirin. Try a cox-2 like nabutomene

Scott Howard · From: Georgetown, TN, USA

I started going to the arthritis doctors over 20 years ago.After several years and multiple medications I figured I couln't take the arthritis drugs.For years I have only taken various herbs and just live with it. By the way I am only 45 now.
I have found that the wax dip from Wal Mart does great for the hands. It looks like a big crock pot and heats the candle wax so you can dip your hands in it.
For what it is worth I have quit playing several times ,only to buy everything back and start back again. I usually buy high and sell cheap. I have finally decided when I can I will play when I can't it will just accumulate dust. I have problems with my hips and shoulders as well as hands .
My father quit playing the fiddle for about 30 years because the arthritis had got to the point he couldn't hold it to play it. He has started playing again with the help of a stand that helps hold it and he sort of leans into it.
My point in this is If you enjoy playing ,the desire will always be there. You will only still wish you are playing .Find the best way for you to keep playing even if it is less often,but don't give up!!

Ben Rubright · From: Punta Gorda, Florida, USA

Bob:

Here are a few threads that Buddy Emmons talks about his arthritis problem and what he takes for it......perhaps it will be useful to you.

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/001451.html

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/004873.html

http://steelguitarforum.com/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20011227-1-013755.html

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

FWIW, I get relief from a product advertised by Paul Harvey and marketed by Hi-Health. It is called Optim-3.
It contains glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, hyaluronic acid and collagen.
In addition to this, I also take flax seed oil capsules. I was taking fish oil capsules but they didn't agree with me, so I switched to the flax seed oil capsules.
My shoulders used to ache so bad at night that it was hard for me to go to sleep. I don't have this problem anymore. I also have some arthritis in my fingers but the above seems to keep it under control. YMMV Very Happy

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

let's not forget that music is healing and to keep playing is to ultimately relieve pain. Creating music releases endorphins which are our natural pain relief

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I believe that my friend and Forum member, Skip Mertz, has some suggestions.

I think he was helpful in Buddy's case. I'm starting to address the same problem myself, so I'm researching it, too.

RR

Tom Husting · From: Wisconsin, USA

Here's what I do, and after 2 or 3 days, works! Take about a spoonful of celery seed and grind it up. Crush it real good, then mix with a little water or other liquid of choice. Down that once or twice a day. Really works for me.

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

I've been taking the WalMart Spring Valley Glucosamine-Chondritin for about 3 years now, not only for the fingers, but also for the major weight-bearing joints such as knees and hips.

It gave me relief after about 2 months. I took it for about a year and decided to try quitting; after about a month discomfort had gotten back to its previous level, so I restarted and have been taking it ever since.

Some articles say that it doesn't do any good. But my personal experience convinced me to stick with it.

I take an Omega-3 combo from Whole Foods called Super DHA too. It supposed to be good for the brain and nervous system function. I think it contributes to joint comfort too.

David Doggett · Posted 25 Oct 2007 8:20 pm

Arthritis is not a single disease. It is simply a descriptive term that in plain English means inflammation of the joints. There are many types, and many causes. People have unique genetic dispositions to certain types at certain ages. It is mostly an autoimmune disease, meaning your own immune system is attacking your body and inflamming your joints. In the hands it is usually rheumatoid arthritis, which is different from the osteo arthritis of the hips and knees. But these are also just descriptive terms encompassing many types and causes, mostly unknown.

Most arthritis comes and goes. When it flares up people will try various remedies, then when it spontaneously gets better, they think the remedy helped them, when really it was just coincidence (a phenomenon called "regression to the mean"). Then they stop the remedy and the symptoms come back, which again is coincidence. Not saying you can't experiment with yourself and find something that helps - just saying be a little skeptical of all the zillions of remedies other people say helped them. Many folk remedies such as copper bracelets have been demonstrated to be ineffective in rigorous trials.

It is true a family doctor is unlikely to be able to help you much. Your best bet is to go to a specialist at a teaching hospital connected to a major medical school.

It is not a good idea to lapse into disuse. While keeping active with the problem joints may not make things any better, complete inactivity can allow a joint to stiffen irreparably.

NSAIDS can temporarily ease the pain, but they don't treat the cause or stop the course of the disease. And taken in large doses over time can have serious side effects.

It may be helpful to apply heat before activity, and cold after activity - like baseball pitchers do with their arms.

I was lucky. I had arthritis in both hips, and had them replaced one after the other. I'm 90% normal for everyday activities. Unfortunately, they can't replace hands.

Good luck! And support medical research.

James Martin (U.K.) · From: Watford, Herts, United Kingdom * R.I.P.

Yesterday the Medical Officer of the American Medical Body gave the green light to the new medicine VOLTAREN for arthritis sufferers. It is prescribed in tablet and gel form. Not sure if this an over the counter medicine but apparently it has been described as a wonder drug for that problem.

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

Danny Hammers · Posted 27 Oct 2007 6:39 am

Hi Bob
Scott Howard is on the right track. I watched my dad
with this and it worked, he was a carpenter, and he would get to the point he was able to open his rule.

If you will give me a call at 352-860-0155 i'll tell you his story. or sent me a email and I'll call you.
The wax worked for him real well. There was a Dr. in Owensboro KY. that him doing this.

Email: dhammers@tampabay.rr.com
You have a good day
Danny Web Master for www.AlabamaSteelGuitar.net
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Rusty Walker · From: Markham Ont. Canada, R.I.P.

After reading Buddy's posts on his condition at the time,I think "God what that man must have gone thru mentally.Being at that level of dexterity and get dragged down to the level he described must have been torture.My dad was a classical violinist who was good enough to play 1st chair.Arthritis affected his hands so badly in his later years that he could no longer hold the bow-let alone finger.He would try and tears would fill his eyes 'cause he loved it so much.Perhaps Ernie,you could update us on Buddy's progress.So far,at 68,Artritis is mostly in my back and although I can't attempt speed records any more,I'm still able to function with acceptible results.I understand it's an inherited disease.I was turned on to Vitamin B6.And I find it does a great deal to lessen the constant back pain.I've recently added B complex and to date the results seem better.

bob drawbaugh · From: scottsboro, al. usa

Thanks to everyone for there in put. This week I started the following. Omega 3 oil , fish oil, primrose oil( instruction says it for PMS), vitamen E and Magnesium supplement and Osteo Bi-flex with MSM.

Question, Should I do the CMO program with the above or instead of the above.

Danny I sent you an email.

David Doggett · Posted 27 Oct 2007 4:06 pm

Well, Bob, there are two phenomena that come into play: regression to the mean and the placebo effect.

For whatever reasons (weather, hormonal changes, stress, etc.) arthritis and many other conditions can repeatedly cycle from better to worse periods. Over the long run the condition may be gradually getting worse, but in the short run there are ups and downs. During the better times you tend to get by with little or no intervention. But then it gets worse, and you feel you have to try something, anything. You do. Then the condition lets up a little in its natural cycle. You think the intervention caused that, but it may not have. Then things are better for awhile and you slack off on the intervention (maybe it has side-effects, is too much trouble, costs too much, etc.). In its natural cycle the condition begins to worsen again. You think it is because you stopped the intervention, but it may just be the natural cyle. As the condition cycles from worst or best back to average (or mean), that is called regression to the mean.

In addition to the cycling in an individual, as described above, whole groups of patients in trials may cycle. People tend to show up at the doctor's for treatment when their condition worsens. And so that's when they get entered into a trial. You have selected for a group of patients with their cycling symptoms at their worst. Then they all regress back to the mean more or less together, and it looks like the trial treatment made them all better, when really it is just an artifact of the selection and cycling. The only way to detect this is with a control group that gets no-treatment, or fake treatment (placebo). In many such controlled trials the data shows this group also getting better. You have to subtract the effect in the control group from the effect in the treatment group to see what was actually caused by the treatment.

Even if there is no cycling, people tend to get better just from their efforts to try a treatment, and from the added attention from the doctor and others around them. They want their efforts to pay off, and they don't want to dissappoint the doctor. It is a psychological effect called the placebo effect. It can be amazingly strong. Patients with very serious conditions sometimes show amazing improvement from fake treatment. The effect is so strong that sometimes it seems like we should take advantage of it and just give people sugar pills. After all, there are no side-effects, and it's dirt cheap. Again the solution is double-blind controlled trials, where neither the patient nor the treating physician knows who is getting real treatment and who is getting placebo.

If you are just trying things out yourself in an informal way, you can see that having both regression to the mean and the placebo effect working can make it very difficult to tell if something really works for you. That doesn't mean not to try things that seem promising. But look for long term benefit, and take everybody's personal testamonial with a big grain of salt.

There is also the subgroup problem. Frequently many people in a trial will receive little or no benefit, while a few will receive substantial benefit. That's another reason why someone else's miracle cure may not work for you. As I recall, this is what happend in glucosamine trials. Early small trials had mixed results. One or two bigger trials seemed to show genuine improvement. Later an even bigger trial that allowd subgroup analysis showed that most people did not benefit, but some people with really severe symptoms got some benefit (just recalling that from memory of newspaper reports).

As you can see, it takes a lot of very careful research to sort things out. Your aunt Minnie's cat pee and terbacky poltice probably hasn't received a rigorous scientific test.

bob drawbaugh · From: scottsboro, al. usa

David Doggett · Posted 27 Oct 2007 8:37 pm

For what it's worth, I take a minimal dose of chondroitin/glucosamine/MSM, Men's 1-a-day multivitamin, Fish Oil, and Vitamin D, try to eat a balanced diet without overeating, and get a little exercise (two to four days a week) walking, on an eliptical machine, and with free weights. Don't notice any specific results (except for the exercise), but I'm hoping it will all help me age slower. Growing old - it ain't for sissies. Confused

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

David, thanks for elaborating on the regression to the mean; very clear, understandable.

I'm very familiar with the placebo effect; of course I think I'm too smart to be fooled by it, but very willing to be if it happens to give relief.

I've taken the glucosamine-chondroitin combo for around 2-3 years now and am willing to relax into it as something that offers ongoing relief. I'm also completely with you on the diet/exercise thing.

Something else, and this is just hearsay type stuff, but I work out at a place where there are world class marathoners and triathletes, many of whom have been doing running/pounding for 30 years or more. There's a pretty firm consensus among a lot of them that glucosamine-chondroitin keeps them going, so, you know, if you're in good company, etc. I'm just a fitness type exerciser, but it keeps the whole body working much better imo.

Again thanks for the elaboration.
bk

Willis Vanderberg · From: Petoskey Mi

Some of the remedies suggested may work for some but not for all. I believe the first step should be to see a good Rheumatologist. These are medical doctors who specialize in this field. It could take month's to get an appointment. But it is essential to establish what form of the disease you have. As mentioned previously, there are a number of forms of this disease and also they affect people in different ways.

Old Bud

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