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Topic: need S12 uni setup |
Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 18 Oct 2007 8:29 am |
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I Have an MSA S12 "the universal" 8+4 that is Ext E9, and would like to explore the universal tuning. Everything that I look at is 8+5 or more, looking for an 8+4 tuning. Thanks for any help.
Bill
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 6:56 am
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Bill, your question seems to have been ignored so I'll tell you what I'd do with your guitar. My setup is 8 and 5 but dropping one lever I assume that none of your levers are the verticle type. Starting with the basic tuning from high to low....
F# D# G# E B G# F# E B G# E B
Knee levers first:
RKR would lower the 4th and 8th strings E to D# and if you had the rod I'd lower the 2nd string to C# on this same lever.
RKL would raise the 4th and 8th strings to F and if you had another rod you could lower the 11th E string to C#.
LKR would lower the 5th string B to A# (Bb)
LKL would lower the 2nd string D# to D and either raise the 9th string B to D or lower the 8th string E to D.
Pedal 1....Mine raises the 7th string F# to G# but you could lower strings 3, 6, & 10 to G....
Pedal 2....would be your "normal" A pedal (Emmons setup) raising your 5th and 9th B strings to C#.
Pedal 3....would be your "normal" B pedal raising your 3rd, 6th, and 10th G# strings to A.
Pedal 4....would be your C pedal raising your 4th and 5th strings a whole tone.....
Pedal 5....would raise your 5th string B to C# and your 6th string G# to A# (Bb).
Pedal 6....would lower your 8th string E to D and raise your 4th string to E. This would actually be used to bring your 4th string back to E after it's lowered to D# on the RKR lever and be tuned while holding your RKR lever in.
Pedal 7....would lower your 7th string F# to F, raise your 11th string E to F, and raise your 12th string B to C#....
Pedal 8....is the world famous "BooWah" pedal. this would raise your 9th string B to C, lower your 11th string E to D#, and lower your 12th string B to G#. To complete a full strummable chord add your LKR which lowers the 5th string a half tone.
This setup will handle anything that's ever thrown at you and will be usable with all E9 and most C6 tab. Good luck with your MSA
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 8:18 am
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What Jerry says is fine. From past threads it seems about half of us uni players prefer the E lower and E raise levers on different legs. The most common way for that is to have the E raise on LKL and the E lower on RKL. RKR lowers your 2nd string, and LKR gives you the D from either the 8th or 9th string. Typically the first three pedals from the left are the ABC E9 pedals, and the rest function as the C6 pedals 5, 7, 8. That leaves you with two pedals for personal preferences. Since you don't have a center knee lever cluster over the 6th mode pedals, your leg will mostly stay with your left knee levers. For that reason it would be most practical to put one of your extra pedals to the left of the ABC pedals, what is usually called the 0 pedal position. But this might require readjusting, or even moving the left knee levers - depends on your own ergonomics. That 0 pedal might be a Franklin pedal or whatever you want.
Most uni players eventually want that 5th knee lever. Most commonly it is LKV lowering string 5 to Bb. Mine raises stings 1 and 7 to G and G#, which I find useful for rock, blues and jazz. |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 8:30 am
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David, I'd have to disagree with you the the "most common" way is to have your E lower lever on RKR and your E raises on LKL. I think far more players on both Uni and D-10 will have the raises and lowers on the same leg! Jeff Newman who was a master of the U-12 and wrote a lot of instructional material for it had both on the same leg, RKR for lowers and RKL for raises. Some players have the raises and lowers on the left leg but I think that's not the way to go about it as your having to hold over the lever with the same leg as you're using your pedals with. I think the Sierra steels came that way but they had a change lock. The MSA's and most others come the way I noted.........JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 9:01 am
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| Jerry Hayes wrote: |
| David, I'd have to disagree with you the the "most common" way is to have your E lower lever on RKR and your E raises on LKL. I think far more players on both Uni and D-10 will have the raises and lowers on the same leg! Jeff Newman who was a master of the U-12 and wrote a lot of instructional material for it had both on the same leg, RKR for lowers and RKL for raises. Some players have the raises and lowers on the left leg but I think that's not the way to go about it as your having to hold over the lever with the same leg as you're using your pedals with. I think the Sierra steels came that way but they had a change lock. The MSA's and most others come the way I noted.........JH in Va. |
Jeff also had Day pedals (CBA instead of ABC), which made it less practical to put the F lever on LKL. Most Day players have the F lever on LKR, but that would interfere with access to the inside pedals on a U-12.
I think that his use of the Jimmy Day pedal arrangement was his main reason for having the F lever on his right knee.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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bob drawbaugh
From:
scottsboro, al. usa
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 1:53 pm
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| Bill send me your email address and I can send you what I use. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 2:24 pm
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bob drawbaugh, please use the email on my post.....Thanks to all that responded, I looked at the setup on Jeff Newman website, the only one that shows 8+4, I don't have a vert. on this guitar, or a lock. I think most/some have a lock on the E lower lever. Putting a lock should not be too much of a problem if a univ. tuning is a do-able thing, I'm sure my friend Charles Reece will let me use his shop to do the necessary mods. Jerry, thanks for your setup I'll print all info for reference.
Thanks..BF
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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bob drawbaugh
From:
scottsboro, al. usa
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 4:50 pm
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Bill
If you play the emmons setup check out Larry Bell's web sit. He has a very good u12 setup. He can play it all with this setup. His web sit has a lot of good info for U12 players. IMHO the lock is a bad ideal. It locks out half of you guitar. Why not just play D10 if your going to use a lock. Just my opinion and your milage may very. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 10:46 pm
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Jerry, you may be right, the "most common" setup might to have the E raises and lowers on the same knee, as Jeff Newman had. By saying "about half" have them on different knees, I was just going on some past threads on this topic here on the Forum, which may not be representative of what's out there.
This is not just a uni issue. In past threads regarding 10-string E9, no less than Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin have had differeing opinions on this. The BE school makes the point that since you will never use both levers at once, it is more efficient to put them on the same knee, thereby leaving the other knee for levers that will be used with one or the other of the E string levers. The PF school feels that, even though the E-raise and E-lower levers won't be used simultaneously, they will sometimes be used one after the other, and having them on different legs makes that sequence smoother. I've tried it both ways, and found the PF idea to be the case for me.
So I'm just putting this out there as an option that works better for some of us. Which setup is "most common" or not is less relevant than what works for the individual player. If the very top pros can't agree on this, then the rest of us are home free to chose whichever setup works best for us, which depends on which changes one uses together and in sequence. |
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Ernie Pollock
From:
Mt Savage, Md USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2007 4:55 am Gee Whiz zz zz
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I have a version of 'Little Rock Getaway' that Doug Jernigan sent a buddy of mine, to do that on E9th with E's raising & lowering on the same knee is real tough, but I have always had my E's on different knees, usually LKL for the Raise, and RKR for the lowers on either Universal or standard E9th 10 string guitars. I guess its really up to the individual as to how they like them, or what feels best to them. Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in here!!
Oh, you can play Little Rock on the C6th neck, if ya got it, or your B6th on the Unie's
Ernie Pollock
http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 20 Oct 2007 5:54 am
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I've evolved into the RKR & RKL set up for my E raises and lowers. The first guitar I ever had which came with 4 knee levers was a 76 ShoBud S-12. It came from the factory with the E lowers on RKL and the raises on LKL. I played it that way for awhile until trying out the Buddy Emmons way of having the lowers on LKR.
That worked fine for me until I started adding pedals to the guitar. I eventually had it up to 8 floor pedals and it just seemed easier to use the floor pedals with the E lowers on the right....JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 20 Oct 2007 6:53 am Re: need S12 uni setup
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Hi Bill, don't bother with a lock lever, without it you can just flow from a 9th tuning to a 6th tuning, just think of it as one big tuning incoperating both necks. Also it's a good idea to have both E's working on your right knee. I also lower my 8th string to D# on RLR and my LKL will take that same 8th string down to D, and my 2nd down to D/C# This I think is better than some who raise the 9th string "B" up to "D" ...too much of a pull which will cause string breakage. My tuning is very similar to Larry Bell's and Danny Nacarrato's. It works fine  My 4th pedal is my Boowah pedal with E's lowered on RKR.
Micky Byrne United Kingdom www.mickybyrne.com |
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bob drawbaugh
From:
scottsboro, al. usa
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Posted 20 Oct 2007 8:21 am
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Micky
Hey the Sho-Bud Sounds great. Larry Bell's set up is a good way to go. |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 20 Oct 2007 10:39 am
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I raise the 9th string to D and I use it A LOT. No string breakage or tuning issues on my Williams U-12s
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2007 1:31 pm Re: need S12 uni setup
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| Bill Ford wrote: |
| I Have an MSA S12 "the universal" 8+4 that is Ext E9, and would like to explore the universal tuning. Everything that I look at is 8+5 or more, looking for an 8+4 tuning. |
Emmons or Day pedal arrangement? It makes a difference!
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 23 Oct 2007 9:56 am
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Emmons setup,
Jeffran has an E9/B6 course that I am thinking about ordering, also the tuning listed on their site has 4 kl setup.
Thanks for all your input...BF
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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