Thought processes on the Bandstand

Roger Light · From: Sheldon, IL

Calvin's thread "ok i'm stumped", got me thinking how I actually play on the bandstand. (besides not that well Oh Well

). I find myself not knowing what chords I'm playing after I find the key. I just know where to go for I, IV, V, IIm, VIm, IIIm ect. While playing any song if someone walked up to me and asked what chord that was, I would have to stop and think about it before giving them an answer. How do most of you guys go about this. Should I learn that the 3 fret with A pedal is a Em or just keep doing what I have been doing? ie: I'm playing in D at 5th fret with AB pedals down, then I know that the IIm is back 2 frets with the A pedal down, the IIIm would be up 2 from that with A pedal still down etc etc. Will it really help my playing to learn the names of all the chords and notes or just keep hammering away like I have been. Thanks, Rog
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Rains D-10, Peavey Profex 2 and Nashville 1000, Nashville 112, Steelers Choice Seat, Hilton pedal.

Jerry L Miller · From: Sublette, Kansas, USA

i cant read music, wish i could. but i know where every chord, major, minor etc, is on my fretboard. there are charts that chow all the chords. i have one Sad

just dont knoe where it is in all my [junk Very Happy

] going on vav, next week if you cant find one i will find it when i get back if yo want it
jerry Very Happy

Duane Reese · Posted 13 Oct 2007 9:36 am

I find it easier to read number charts, but sometimes they'll stick a letter chart in front of you, so the more you can do, the better off you are. Of course, use of the number system give you and advantage over those who don't: as soon as they change the key, you have the last laugh!

Probably the best thing is to be able to work both ways, but personally I'd rather be strong on numbers.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I usually think in number positions while I'm playing, but I've memorized the notes of the scale in most keys so that matching F#m to 2m in E or to 6m in A is pretty automatic. By knowing the scales, I can read either kind of chord chart.
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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

For me, it's just a matter of already knowing what the numbers are in each key. A II in the key of F is a G, a II in the key of A is a B, and so on. I start with knowing where I am in a NP position, and everything is built from there. I don't consciously think chord names when I'm playing, I just go to the chord. It's kind of like what a carpenter does, I guess. He thinks "I need a nail that's so long". He usually doesn't think "I need a 14d here and a 16d there", he just instinctively knows which one to select, and does it. He knows the difference between a 14d and a 16d, but he doesn't think of them in those terms. He just grabs what he needs and goes with it.

Too much "thinking" can actually slow you down! Embarassed

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

One great advantage to knowing the notes in the chords and what chords you are playing as you play is that new chord voicings and phrases start to appear all over the fret board. A simple example is if you are in the key of G at the 3rd fret you don't need any pedals or bar movement to play a V chord (D). If you know your notes and chords its obvious. If you play only in positions it is elusive.

For recording work knowing what you are doing is a big help. Say you do a harmonized melodic pass and the producer likes it but wants another one inverting the 3rds to 6ths behind the vocal. Or more commonly the notes are right but they want you to bend some note up instead of down to resolve a chord.

The more you learn the better.
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Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

The problem I have is that the guitarist capo and still call the chords by the shapes, for example capo at 2 then calling a Amaj a Gmaj because of the chord shape. I always try to get everyone in the band locked onto the numbers because it is less confusing to transpose keys. Plus they usually dont know a maj7th from a 7th etc...probably a whole different topic.
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Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

the guys that know it both ways must have an amazing memory, i have trouble just remembering the cord progressions of songs, let along trying to remember them two ways
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proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Bob Blair · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Calvin, I don't think it is a matter of amazing memories (I certainly don't think I have one of those!)- the more basic musical knowledge you acquire the less you will have to rely on memory. You will find that knowing how chords relate to one another through the number system makes it less necessary to remember (for example) the chords to a specific song.

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

correct me if i'm wrong,
i understand how the number system works like on a song that has a 1-4-5 progression
i would play the 1st 4th and 5th note in that order i know where the numbers come from , and i know ( i think) that there are 2 minors between the 1st and 4th note. i'm not sure what it is about it that confuses me about it , just can't seem to get it in my head how to remember what a 2 minor is as appossed to an A minor
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proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

In key of c:
C= I and is Major
d= II and is minor
e= III and is minor
F= IV and is Major
G= V And is Major
a= VI and is minor
b= VII and is diminished

so the order is always M m m M M m dim then repeat at octave for any key unless modified...
any deviation should be marked as V7 Vm IImaj etc

this how I was taught, and I am assuming it is universal, I think Bob has it layed out by pedals in his theory section
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Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

so if i understand this right,
in the key of C
a 3 minor would be an E minor???
following this line of thought
in the key of F the 2 minor would be G minor???
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Exactly, It comes from a process in theory called harmonizing scales, where you write out the major scale
, then write it again on top a third higher, and again a third higher, etc. It comes out :
M, m, m,M, M ,m, dim,Octave for every key.
I always write out the Key of C to get my spacing since there is no sharp or flat notes:
C, d, e,F, G, a, b,C then write out other keys under them
C, d, e,F, G, a, b,C
F, g, a,A#,C, d, e,F
the spacing is constant for every key, so the numbers play the same role in every key, and you dont have to thing so much about sharps or flats. I have a index card with this all written out for all the keys so I just get the chord chart, find my open I chord on the neck, assign numbers to the other chords and dont give it a second thought.
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Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

thanks a million Steve
i am going to try to get this in my head.
i have known for some time now that i needed to learn it, but i just kept getting confused
thanks again
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proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

No problem, If I got something wrong Im sure these guys will catch it, but this logic seems to work for me. My cheat sheet gets me playing peoples songs as soon as I am shown the chords.
Steve
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Landon Johnson · From: Washington, USA

I find this pattern interesting - I see it playing a six string in diads up the neck, I see it in diad scales up the PSG neck with/without pedals

(strings 5,6 3AB, 6, 8, 8AB, 10AB, 13, 15, 15AB

- it is an importasnt pattern. I just don't know how to explain it! But it's prevalent everywhere.

Landon

Bud Harger · From: Belton, Texas by way of Baton Rouge, Louisiana

I had to think a minute about how I think when playing...

...I play a couple of Opry's where 4 or 5 singers come in and sing their choices of 6 or 8 tunes. The Band has to be able to change key centers when the one we're given turns out to be too high or too low. Changing from one key center to another is easy with numbers. I'm a recent convert to number charts and now I can hardly make it without them.

A long time ago, I mapped minors on E9th from the Closed Position (pedals down) and from the Open Position (pedals up).

For instance: A 2 minor is always 2-frets-down from the major position. That is with: "A" pedal from the Closed Position; and knee lever ("lower E's) from Open Position. Note that makes a 3 minor right-on the major position; a 4 minor is 1 fret up...and so on and on.

There are many other locations where these chords appear, but this is how I visualize (or think) about playing especially with unfamiliar songs/artists...on the fly.

Just my two cents worth.

bUd

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

I think you and Bud said the same thing,2frets down is the IV right? in C would be fret 1?
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Bud Harger · From: Belton, Texas by way of Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Remember that the way I visualize playing (and I'm a visual player) is different. You will visualize in your own way.

To me, it is logical to relate minors to the "Pedals Down" or "No Pedals" chord site on the E9th neck. I visualize the Fifth fret as "A"-"No Pedals" and "D"-"Pedals Down". I don't mean that the Pedals are ACTUALLY down. I just locate the minors from those sites.

"No Pedals" Chord 1 Position
6 minor = A-pedal-down at Chord 1 position.
3 minor = KL (- E's) at Chord 1 position.
2 minor = KL (- E's) at Chord 7b position.

"Pedals Down" Chord 1 position
6 minor = KL (- E's) at Chord 7b position.
3 minor = A-pedal-down at Chord 1 position.
2 minor = A-pedal-down at Chord 7b position.

My head hurts.

bUd

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Man, wanna learn theory start playing the steel! I have had to learn so much about song/chord construction since I switched from guitar to steel. Wish I did it sooner
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Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

I almost never think about 'what' I'm playing, just kinda follow my ear around, I guess mostly playing in and across pockets or whatever you want to call it. At some point your ear just sorta recognizes the interval, and the chord I think... and it's almost automatic, your hands and feet just go there.

My personal thought process???? More like this:

"I hope the guitar player doesn't turn up any more."
"Is that me or the acoustic guitar out of tune?"
"This tempo sucks."
"Wow!..where did she come from?"
"Is my B string flat?"
"I think I locked my keys in my car"
"My amp sounds like it's got a blanket over it."
"I wish the guitar player's amp would blow up."
"That acoustic guitar is definitely out of tune."
"Who turned up this monitor?, it's killing me."
"I wonder if I ought to try one of those Revelation Preamps?"
"I could sell some stuff.."
"Is that Ricky Davis that just came in? oh no.."
"I wonder how long that G# is gonna last, I shoulda changed it."
...

And that's just the first 30 seconds...
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Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Bill you nailed it,,,lmao
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Billy Wilson · From: El Cerrito, California, USA

What Steve N. said!!

Rick Johnson · From: Wheelwright, Ky USA

If I've heard the song before but haven't
played it, I try and get close to the original
licks as I can from memory.
If I have never heard the song before
I listen to the lyrics and play off of them
especially in slow ballad type songs.
If its a fast song then I just hang on
to the phrases that I know and play out
of those positions.

Rick

www.rickjohnsoncabs.com

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