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Topic: Knee Lever Desigination |
Rocky Hill
From:
Prairie Village,Kansas, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2007 6:11 pm |
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I just took up the steel. I purchased a GFI S-10SM with 3 pedals and 4 knees. I was wondering if there is a standard in which the knees are designated.
Are they D=LKR E=RKR F=LKL G=RKL
Thanks.
Rocky Hill |
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Kyle Everson
From:
Nashville, Tennessee
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Posted 28 Aug 2007 8:57 pm
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The designations are normally relegated to function more than location. It is feasible to have any lever at any location on your steel. It's best to explain which lever you're referring to by saying "the lever that lowers 4 & 8 a half tone," for example. Older players and newer players have different letters for different levers, simply because we learned from different teachers and materials.
For an Emmons setup, it's very common to have these lever locations (with some of the common letter names):
F-lever on LKL (raise 4&8 from E to F)
E-lever on LKR (lower 4&8 from E to D#)
*another common location for this lever is on RKL
D-lever on RKR (lower 2 to D and 2&9 to C#)
The so-called "G" lever can have a lot of different functions.
The "X" lever, usually LKV, often lowers the Bs to Bb.
Keep in mind none of this is set in stone. I guess that's a start, hope it helps. |
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Rocky Hill
From:
Prairie Village,Kansas, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2007 5:48 am
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Ok, what you show is what I have. What I was calling G is my RKL that raises 1 & 7 from F# to G.
I guess where my confusion came from is I purchased the Mel Bays chord chart/Dewitt Scott,it shows the D lever lowers E(4&8) to D# and E lever D# to D.
A picture is worth a thousand words. top is what I have compared to chart on bottom. I'm learning this all on my own as there seem to be no instruction available in the Kansas City area. You see where I'm a little confused. As I can't find what is considered standard so to speak.
Thanks for the reply
Rocky Hill
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2007 6:17 am
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I think the top chart uses reference letters that are more of a standard for today's guitars. In the steel world, a "standard setup" can be a rather loose term, often determined by who you're talking to, or your playing style.
This is one of those ambiguous areas where there is no complete standardization. The most accurate way of describing knee levers is to use the knee lever position, ie. LKL, RKR, etc., and state the changes involved..."LKR lowers 4 and 8 Es to D#s", "LKL raises 4 and 8 Es to Fs", "RKL raises 1 and 7 F#s to Gs, etc. Then there's no doubt over what you're talking about. But it's not as convenient as the shorthand using E lever, and F lever, and so on.
Also, remember the books you refer to are pretty old and things have evolved a bit since they were published.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2007 6:26 am
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I always call the lever that lowers the 2nd string D, and the one that lowers 4 and 8 E. On tab it's clear anyway, because of the string it's on.
When talking or writing, I refer to them as the "E lower" and "D# lower".
The positions (LKL, LKR, etc.) are irrelevant to the music. Any change can be in any position. Some are more common, but there's no right or wrong position for the standard changes.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Rocky Hill
From:
Prairie Village,Kansas, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2007 8:08 am
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| b0b wrote: |
I always call the lever that lowers the 2nd string D, and the one that lowers 4 and 8 E. On tab it's clear anyway, because of the string it's on.
When talking or writing, I refer to them as the "E lower" and "D# lower".
The positions (LKL, LKR, etc.) are irrelevant to the music. Any change can be in any position. Some are more common, but there's no right or wrong position for the standard changes. |
I see now. My confusion came when I thought there was a standard. The top chart is what my guitar is tuned to.
I have played regular guitar for about 39 years and I figured that instructional booklets were probably all the same for E9th.
I started with the Dewitt Scott book w/cd. Working with the pedals didn't seem to be a problem but as I jumped way ahead in the book, and as I found various tabs that desiganated levers with a letter I discovered things didn't sound right, or the lever being used didn't affect the strings shown that were being played.
That was when I noticed that the copedent in the book was different from my GFI and different from the chord chart. Thats what made me wonder if there was a standard letter for LKL,LKR ect,ect.
You can see as a novice striking out on my own the confusion. and the chord chart I purchased confused me even more.
With that all said, who has good beginning instructional material.
Thanks for everyones help.
Rocky |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2007 9:23 am
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I'd suggest Jeff Newman's courses.
Jeffran College
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 29 Aug 2007 10:14 am
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Ah soo... The designation is by what it Does, not by where it Is....
Thank goodness that issue is finally put to bed... |
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Rocky Hill
From:
Prairie Village,Kansas, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2007 10:37 am
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| Ray Minich wrote: |
| Thank goodness that issue is finally put to bed... |
Gee.... I'm sorry if my asking for advice and help because I didn't understand, stimulated your sarcastic words of wisdom. If you don't want to help, don't.
Rocky |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 29 Aug 2007 11:17 am
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Contact Roger Hurst, he is involved with the new KC Steel Guitar Club and may be able to help you find someone that will give lessons or at least get you started.
Roger used to have an auto repair shop out on Independence (I think) Ave,
E-mail me if you can't find Roger in the phone book. I have his e-mail, but won't post it on the forum.
(I used to live in KC, North). |
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Rocky Hill
From:
Prairie Village,Kansas, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2007 11:35 am
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I have talked to Roger and he has me on the email list of the club in Kansas city. I even talked to Bruce Zumsteg (before I knew who he was) and he told me he didn't even know anyone who gave instruction in KC.
I actually got thru to Roger from a video posted on youtube by KC Steeler, I sent a message and he hooked me up with Roger.
But until I find someone I will keep pluging away. This seem to be the most obscure instrument in Kansas City.
Thanks
Rocky |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 29 Aug 2007 12:33 pm
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Rocky: Please Insinuate absolutely nothing negative from my post. I learned something new here and was just expressing my appreciation for the info.
I should have said "I'm glad that issue was put to ben In My Head....
I have long been perplexed and confused by the naming of the pedals, even so far where levers get called pedals and pedals get called levers.
When I set down to the guitar, permanent newbie that I am, and somebody refers to the "E" lever, it may be different on a Day setup than on an Emmons. Don't ask me what "lever" it is... I have to go look it up. I just play the darned thing...
No offense intended whatsoever.
My RKL lowers string 6. I love it, but don't ask me what the lever is called...I'd hafta go look it up. |
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Stan Paxton
From:
1/2 & 1/2 Florida and Tenn, USA (old Missouri boy gone South)
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Posted 30 Aug 2007 7:43 pm
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Rocky, welcome to the rocky road of steel guitar. I formerly lived in K.C. but gone for 28 years now. So can't put you with anyone current there for instruction or help. But there is a fellow Forum member in Prairie Village, Kans I think, which is not too far away, depending on where you are in KC, name of Colm Chomicky. A knowledgeable steeler, and may be able to help you, or refer you; watch for his posts on here, and maybe give him a PM. 
_________________
Mullen Lacquer SD 10, 3 & 5; Mullen Mica S 10 1/2 pad, 3 & 5; BJS Bars; LTD400, Nashville 112, DD-3, RV-3, Hilton VP . -- Gold Tone PBS sq neck; Wechter Scheerhorn sq neck. -- "Experience is the thing you have left when everything else is gone." -anon.- |
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Rocky Hill
From:
Prairie Village,Kansas, USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2007 4:55 am
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Stan,Thanks for the welcome.
I actually live in Prairie Village and I'm on the email list for the group in KC. slowly but surely I will get to meet the group in KC. I think they have a monthly get together at the Prairie Village community center. I found them from a video on youtube.
Rocky |
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