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Topic: Lap Steel Vs. Pedal Steel |
Keith Ballmer
From:
Traverse City, Michigan, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2007 2:42 pm |
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Dear,Fourm Members
I wanted to start a discustion on Lap Steel Vs. Pedal steel. I have been Playing pedal steel guitar for over a year now, an I have been really interested in some facts comparing the two instuments.
The Question's I have are these!
Can you play anything on Pedal steel that you could play on lap steel?
Lap steel has a different sound then pedal steel, I know the pedals and knee levers change the sound of the guitar for a pedal steel, but does a pedal steel body being made different is what makes the difference in tone?
These maybe rookie questions but in my town there is only one lap steel player and I am 1 of 4 pedal steel guitar players..Thanks
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 24 Aug 2007 3:16 pm
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| Keith, you can play a lot of lap steel stuff on strings 3,4,6,7,8 and 10 while keeping AB pedals down. This gives you an A6th tuning. There's a of of blues slide guitar licks there. Also, lowering 4th and 8th strings gives you a B6th tuning, C6th at the first fret, the same as a 6 string lap steel C6th, on strings 3 thru 8. If you get familiar with this, you will be able to easily jam with rock or blues players. Good luck. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2007 3:31 pm
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Listen to Junior Brown playing lap steel on his double neck Guit-Steel tele thing a ma call it caster.
 Ken
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 24 Aug 2007 10:07 pm Re: Lap Steel Vs. Pedal Steel
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| Keith Ballmer wrote: |
| ...Can you play anything on Pedal steel that you could play on lap steel? |
If you keep your feet off the pedals the only difference is the tuning, and if you play on the C6 neck you're probably going to be using the same tuning as your non-pedal steel. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2007 10:24 pm
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| Quote: |
| Can you play anything on Pedal steel that you could play on lap steel? |
You can play the same notes, but they won't sound exactly the same.
On the lap steel, you use bar slants to get certain harmonies, where you would use pedals on a pedal steel. When you hear a bar slant, you hear two different string lengths. That difference adds a bit of dimension that you don't hear when you use pedals to get the same notes without slanting the bar.
Lap steel is harder to play than pedal steel.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 24 Aug 2007 10:59 pm
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People are always amazed when I tell them I play pedal steel, but not lap steel. they automatically assume that lap steel is easier, and that you must be able to play lap if you play pedals. But b0b is absolutely right. Lap steel is a art that is somewhat removed from pedal steel, in that it involves a whole different playing style. I always consider lap players superior to pedal players. Billy Robinson is one of my favourites. He just gets what he wants through bar slants. He puts "peddlers" to shame. 
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Ulf Edlund
From:
Umeå, Sweden
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Posted 24 Aug 2007 11:45 pm
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Isn't this a bit like comparing piano and organ?
Two different instruments who has a lot in common. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 2:20 am
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In addition to the above, lap steel strings are usually
heavier, resulting in a different tone.
Lap Steel String spacing is usually wider, thus slants are easier.
I recall a conversation I had with the great Herb Remmington. He said, "Every pedal you add makes it just
just a little easier to play."
I see the truth in this, but it's the opposite of conventional perception. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 6:58 am
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| I like to play "chordal" melody. The only reason I went to pedal steel is the ability to get additional 3 string chords via the levers and pedals. I realize that there are some three string slant positions available and Jerry Byrd would use the nose of his bar to get get two string at one fret and a lower string at a lower fret but, then, there are very few Jerry Byrd's. |
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Jack Musgrave
From:
Springfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 7:58 am
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| lately I have been taking my T8 stringmaster along with my pedal steel to my playing gigs. I stand up to play the non pedal. I gotta tell you, I am having great fun playing both. It's a little more work taking 2 guitars, but eveyone seems to really like it. In my opinion, playing non pedal will make a better player out you in general |
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Roy Thomson
From:
Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 8:30 am
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I move from Lap Steel to Pedal Steel all the time
and find little adjustment because I know what to
expect from both. My first seven years of Steel Guitar was all Lap so I had lots of time to practice
and develop technique before moving on. I love both
and regard them in the same light because the identifying sound is the bar in the left hand.
I have done several recordings featuring Lap and
Pedal and insert a link hereuder to " Four Strong Winds " recorded by Ian Tyson and also Neil Young.
The first minute of my arrangement is Lap Steel
followed by E9th. Pedal Steel.
Hope this is of some interest.
http://freefilehosting.net/download/MTU0MTU= |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 8:56 am
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| Lovely tune there Roy! I started out on Lap also but am concentrating more on pedal steel at the moment. It's definitely two different sounds and styles, each having their own challenges and rewards. I practice on a Carter D-10 and usually play the C6 neck as a non pedal to keep my lap steel chops. |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 11:36 am Re: Lap Steel Vs. Pedal Steel
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| Keith Ballmer wrote: |
Can you play anything on Pedal steel that you could play on lap steel?
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Yes, though the right and left hand techniques tend to be slightly different between the two.
| Quote: |
| Lap steel has a different sound then pedal steel, I know the pedals and knee levers change the sound of the guitar for a pedal steel, but does a pedal steel body being made different is what makes the difference in tone? |
Absolutely!!! All that metal tends to make the pedal steel a bit more "homogeneous" sounding compared to a wood bodied instrument. A lap steel will usually have a more complicated overtone structure to its basic tone compared to a PSG.
Lap steels generally use single coil pickups and PSG's usually use humbuckers. Likewise, lap steel is frequently played through low-wattage standard guitar tube amps whereas PSG's, with their super hot pickups, will often use high-wattage solid state amps.
Also, there is the difference in tone bars. Lap steel players tend to favor light-weight and erognomic tone bars whereas PSG players use heavier bars.
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 12:23 pm
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Here's a beautiful example of Rick Alexander playing Song of the Islands on lap steel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnHL4R6bmOQ&mode=related&search=. The overhead shot allows a clear view of his amazing bar slant work. You can see that the slants do sort of the same thing the pedals do. But there are some differences.
Slants are mostly limited to two string harmonies; whereas, with pedal steel you can always get three or four string moving harmonies.
The slant possibilities are virtually unlimited; whereas, on pedal steel you are limited to the set of changes on your pedals and levers (of course you can also use slants on pedal steel).
The control of the moving harmony on slants is with the hand, and so in some ways is more subtle than the feet and knees can get on pedal steel.
The pedals and lever stops on pedal steel can be tuned very precisely, so the changes sound more solid, with more perfect intonation. But it is part of the beauty of lap steel the way the moving slants create intonation tension that can be so beautifully and subtley resolved by a skilled player.
It does seem like the slant technique of lap steel is more difficult than just activating the pedals and levers of pedal steel. But pedal steelers use the extra strings, pedals and levers to create more complicated music that can be just as difficult to learn and play well. I would say chasing the amazing playing of the top lap and pedal steelers is equally difficult.
The video shots like Rick's, and the comparison audio tracks like Roy's are really making this an interesting thread. It's not just people verbally thowing opinions back and forth. We can actually see and hear the difference between lap and pedal steel. Thanks for the Forum, b0b. |
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Roy Thomson
From:
Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 2:14 pm
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Here's another of my Lap and Pedal Steel back to
back songs ..an original called "Friendly Pickin".
The first half is Lap then the Pedals pick it up.
In this I endeavoured to play the Lap with a pedal
"feel".
Link:
http://freefilehosting.net/download/MTU0ODU= |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 5:07 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| ...On the lap steel, you use bar slants to get certain harmonies, where you would use pedals on a pedal steel.... |
Yes, but you don't have to. There's no rule that says you can't use slants on a pedal steel.
The answer to whether you can play everything that you can on a non-pedal on a pedal steel has to be "yes". |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 6:04 pm
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| Quote: |
| I know the pedals and knee levers change the sound of the guitar for a pedal steel, but does a pedal steel body being made different is what makes the difference in tone? |
Stop worrying about the stupid tone. Learn to play the durn thing, and the tone will take care of itself! The vast majority of players obsessed with tone aren't real good players, while those players who are really great can get a good tone out of anything. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Ben Godard
From:
Jamesville NC
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 8:44 pm
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I myself play both psg and lap. My lap is actually non-pedal D-8 stringmaster. I would definately reccomend both. You just can't get the same sound out of a psg. The hot wound pickup for a psg just doesn't give that tone that a standard single coil used on most lap steels can give you. I play rock/ blues etc on my stringmaster and it sounds awesome.
I like the stringmaster especialy because it's gets boring setting down all the in front of a psg. I play my stringmaster standing up since you can raise the legs pretty much as high as you like.
Also, if you like Hank Williams stuff, it sounds best on a non pedal as well.
Getting hold of a stringmaster in my opiion would definately do you justice in my opinion. They are getting rare however but they are still a few on Ebay all the time. They come in different string legnths and there is controversy in which one is best. They come in 26", 24.5, and 22.5" A lot of guys prefer the 24.5" The longer the scale, the more sustain. The shorter scales came about beause it makes doing slants easier. I myself have a 22.5"scale and have no tone or sustain problem at all. By the way, try to get one made in th 50's. They are suppose to be the best for tone quality. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Aug 2007 9:41 pm
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I don't think the body-structure is really that important to the differences in the tone of a PSG or a non-pedal steel! When Jerry Byrd played his Sho-Bud guitar, it had the same body and necks as a PSG. The only main difference was the shorter-scale, but; with his C-Diatonic Tuning, he could closely imitate many psg-licks! I think the term “Pedal Steel” is more associated with Style than with sound/tone! I've heard Emmons sound like a Hawaiian-lapsteel for sound/tone on a P/P Emmons, not using any pedals!
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My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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