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Lola Saura Jimeno wrote:
Levers that affect the same note in the same way: For example, if I have two E notes (one low and one high) in the same chord, the lever affects both identically, lowering bo ...

The only limitation I find with the 10string E9 is its range from the low B string to the high G# since it kinda only allows for two of the 3 open voiced triads inversions at the same fret. (Thats why ...

10th string B-A & 6th string G#-A will also work nicely next to the C pedal.

B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7

Pedal to the left of the A pedal could do both string 6 & 3 G# down to G
Another option would be 6th string G#-A# and maybe also 5th string B-C#

For the pedal to the right of C pedal I would c ...

I got several ideas but first I would like to know what kind of music you want to play on the instrument as it will favor certain changes instead of others.

B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7

The smaller round plastic in fron of the nylon tuners are just a spacer/collar with no threads that should easily slide on/off if the nylon tuners is backed out / removed.
I do have those spacers/co ...

Check which hole at the changer the pull rod that is supposed to lower the E string goes through. The further away it is from the return spring the more chance there is for the nylon tuner to start ac ...

But the PSG is a stack of different fretboards, one for each pedal/lever combination.

Hmm, I care to disagree....at least a little bit.
It complicates things and leads to a lot of memorizing. I h ...

Rootless chords and substitutions are kinda the same. Chord substitions will be a lot easier for the ear to grasp and understand(to begin with) if the substituting chord is played in the form Root 3rd ...

Just a suggestion.....am pretty sure it will work with a Day setup

For P4 since it has 3 rods. 12th string E-C#, 10 & 5 B-Bb (split tuned to give the maj7 with the A pedal)

P5 string 11 and ...

I see one "not neccessary" a flaw but something that will complicate getting the most out of an S12extE9 with some additional Very Happy

pedals.

Your LKL which lower E's to Eb is really needed f ...

Same mechanics as the underside of my S12extE9. A total breeze to modify/change or move things around. The pullrod itself has a pin which make the end that attach to the bellcrank look like a T. Gentl ...

@Fred Treece
I have often wondered why this would not be a standard on E9. Would it be asking too much from one pull to also lower string 9 to C# along with 2,4 and 8?

It would mess up the ability ...

There is a ton of "C6" stuff that can be found on an ExtendedE9 tuning.

Are we talking about a 6 pedal, 4 knee levers guitar ?

In order to give some good choices for the 3 extra pedals ...

It may be possible to reverse the split tuning to become a stacked resulting tuning altho I am not sure how stable it would work tuningwise.

Any that have a B-Bb lever on the 5th string split tuned ...

Ooops, my bad. Should have seen that the picture was posted by another.

The method of checking how much the pullrod need to move should still work tho.

B.Erlandsen

According to those pictures the pullrod for the 6th string lower seems to be too close(from what I can see) to the cross-shaft, which means that your knee lever would need a loooong movement in order ...

Can I add a split tune rod so that when the A pedal is engaged with pedal zero, it lowers that A# pull on zero pedal a small amount?

Yes it can be done. Had to think a little tho to figure a way th ...

After looking at your copedent It just dawned on me that P1 would be a really cool place for string 7 and 1 F#-F. It works really well together with your LKL E's to Eb changing the m7 voicing usually ...

My S12extE9 7+7 has 9th string D-D# on LKV. It is possible to also combine it with 8th string E-F# altho that would require a slightly longer movement of the LKV.

8th string E-F# by itself would al ...

Drop your 9th string down to C#(use as root) w hopefully a lever on the right knee.

At 1st fret you gonna be able find a Dm7 add the B-Bb lever and turn this chord one into a Dm6(substitute for G7) ...

From what I can see on those pictures, the guitar is only missing two pullrods. It should be possible to move pulls to different knee levers if wanted without too much trouble.
Many setups do raise ...

If you press both A+B pedals and keep em pressed, your heel should not need to lift more than maybe 1,5" to fully engage the vertical knee lever. If you need to lift your heel more then your vert ...

The further away(hole location) the pull rod is from the return spring, the more likely it is to get issues with the raise finger moving at the end of the pull(lowering down to C#).

Make sure your ...

If you temporarely remove the spring for the knee lever then your 4th string E should drop to Eb

Your C pedal (if adjusted correctly ) should then when pressed raise 4th string up to E before 5th s ...

Author	Message
Topic: A Copedent to maximize 3-voice movements (Counterpoint)
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 24 Views: 3843	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 8 Oct 2024 12:07 am Subject: A Copedent to maximize 3-voice movements (Counterpoint)
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 24 Views: 3843	Lola Saura Jimeno wrote: Levers that affect the same note in the same way: For example, if I have two E notes (one low and one high) in the same chord, the lever affects both identically, lowering bo ...
Topic: A Copedent to maximize 3-voice movements (Counterpoint)
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 24 Views: 3843	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 3 Oct 2024 2:24 am Subject: A Copedent to maximize 3-voice movements (Counterpoint)
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 24 Views: 3843	The only limitation I find with the 10string E9 is its range from the low B string to the high G# since it kinda only allows for two of the 3 open voiced triads inversions at the same fret. (Thats why ...
Topic: 5 pedal E9 copedent
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 9 Views: 1269	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 14 Aug 2024 12:16 pm Subject: 5 pedal E9 copedent
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 9 Views: 1269	10th string B-A & 6th string G#-A will also work nicely next to the C pedal. B.Erlandsen Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7
Topic: 5 pedal E9 copedent
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 9 Views: 1269	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 14 Aug 2024 7:21 am Subject: 5 pedal E9 copedent
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 9 Views: 1269	Pedal to the left of the A pedal could do both string 6 & 3 G# down to G Another option would be 6th string G#-A# and maybe also 5th string B-C# For the pedal to the right of C pedal I would c ...
Topic: 5 pedal E9 copedent
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 9 Views: 1269	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 13 Aug 2024 3:56 pm Subject: 5 pedal E9 copedent
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 9 Views: 1269	I got several ideas but first I would like to know what kind of music you want to play on the instrument as it will favor certain changes instead of others. B.Erlandsen Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7
Topic: Zum 4th String Problem
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 19 Views: 1749	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 13 Aug 2024 8:25 am Subject: Zum 4th String Problem
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 19 Views: 1749	The smaller round plastic in fron of the nylon tuners are just a spacer/collar with no threads that should easily slide on/off if the nylon tuners is backed out / removed. I do have those spacers/co ...
Topic: Zum 4th String Problem
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 19 Views: 1749	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 16 Jul 2024 12:22 pm Subject: Zum 4th String Problem
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 19 Views: 1749	Check which hole at the changer the pull rod that is supposed to lower the E string goes through. The further away it is from the return spring the more chance there is for the nylon tuner to start ac ...
Topic: Music theory
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 43 Views: 5364	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 11 Jul 2024 11:27 pm Subject: Music theory
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 43 Views: 5364	But the PSG is a stack of different fretboards, one for each pedal/lever combination. Hmm, I care to disagree....at least a little bit. It complicates things and leads to a lot of memorizing. I h ...
Topic: Music theory
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 43 Views: 5364	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 10 Jul 2024 3:55 am Subject: Music theory
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 43 Views: 5364	Rootless chords and substitutions are kinda the same. Chord substitions will be a lot easier for the ear to grasp and understand(to begin with) if the substituting chord is played in the form Root 3rd ...
Topic: My 'new' 12 string Zum
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 3092	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 25 Mar 2024 9:03 am Subject: My 'new' 12 string Zum
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 3092	Just a suggestion.....am pretty sure it will work with a Day setup For P4 since it has 3 rods. 12th string E-C#, 10 & 5 B-Bb (split tuned to give the maj7 with the A pedal) P5 string 11 and ...
Topic: My 'new' 12 string Zum
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 3092	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 25 Mar 2024 3:07 am Subject: My 'new' 12 string Zum
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 3092	I see one "not neccessary" a flaw but something that will complicate getting the most out of an S12extE9 with some additional pedals. Your LKL which lower E's to Eb is really needed f ...
Topic: 1980's Zum - bell-cranks?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 7 Views: 980	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 19 Mar 2024 11:48 am Subject: 1980's Zum - bell-cranks?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 7 Views: 980	Same mechanics as the underside of my S12extE9. A total breeze to modify/change or move things around. The pullrod itself has a pin which make the end that attach to the bellcrank look like a T. Gentl ...
Topic: Seeking recommendations for pedal pulls for C6 licks on E9
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 13 Views: 1981	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 17 Mar 2024 11:09 am Subject: Seeking recommendations for pedal pulls for C6 licks on E9
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 13 Views: 1981	@Fred Treece I have often wondered why this would not be a standard on E9. Would it be asking too much from one pull to also lower string 9 to C# along with 2,4 and 8? It would mess up the ability ...
Topic: Seeking recommendations for pedal pulls for C6 licks on E9
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 13 Views: 1981	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 14 Mar 2024 8:39 am Subject: Seeking recommendations for pedal pulls for C6 licks on E9
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 13 Views: 1981	There is a ton of "C6" stuff that can be found on an ExtendedE9 tuning. Are we talking about a 6 pedal, 4 knee levers guitar ? In order to give some good choices for the 3 extra pedals ...
Topic: "stacking" raises between pedals/levers
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 12 Views: 1964	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 26 Feb 2024 1:26 pm Subject: "stacking" raises between pedals/levers
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 12 Views: 1964	It may be possible to reverse the split tuning to become a stacked resulting tuning altho I am not sure how stable it would work tuningwise. Any that have a B-Bb lever on the 5th string split tuned ...
Topic: New MSA Legend tuning issue
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 4260	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 12 Feb 2024 3:13 pm Subject: New MSA Legend tuning issue
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 4260	Ooops, my bad. Should have seen that the picture was posted by another. The method of checking how much the pullrod need to move should still work tho. B.Erlandsen
Topic: New MSA Legend tuning issue
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 4260	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 12 Feb 2024 1:08 pm Subject: New MSA Legend tuning issue
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 4260	According to those pictures the pullrod for the 6th string lower seems to be too close(from what I can see) to the cross-shaft, which means that your knee lever would need a loooong movement in order ...
Topic: question about compensators
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 2562	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 3 Feb 2024 12:42 pm Subject: question about compensators
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 2562	Can I add a split tune rod so that when the A pedal is engaged with pedal zero, it lowers that A# pull on zero pedal a small amount? Yes it can be done. Had to think a little tho to figure a way th ...
Topic: Renamed: Losing the C pedal (second thoughts)
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 30 Views: 4163	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 1 Feb 2024 1:19 pm Subject: Renamed: Losing the C pedal (second thoughts)
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 30 Views: 4163	After looking at your copedent It just dawned on me that P1 would be a really cool place for string 7 and 1 F#-F. It works really well together with your LKL E's to Eb changing the m7 voicing usually ...
Topic: Raising the 9th?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 4 Views: 1295	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 1 Feb 2024 1:07 pm Subject: Raising the 9th?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 4 Views: 1295	My S12extE9 7+7 has 9th string D-D# on LKV. It is possible to also combine it with 8th string E-F# altho that would require a slightly longer movement of the LKV. 8th string E-F# by itself would al ...
Topic: B - Bb LKV examples?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 12 Views: 1834	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 20 Jan 2024 7:42 am Subject: B - Bb LKV examples?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 12 Views: 1834	Drop your 9th string down to C#(use as root) w hopefully a lever on the right knee. At 1st fret you gonna be able find a Dm7 add the B-Bb lever and turn this chord one into a Dm6(substitute for G7) ...
Topic: Help needed with unconventional copedent - LDG 3x4
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 7 Views: 1317	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 17 Jan 2024 5:50 am Subject: Help needed with unconventional copedent - LDG 3x4
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 7 Views: 1317	From what I can see on those pictures, the guitar is only missing two pullrods. It should be possible to move pulls to different knee levers if wanted without too much trouble. Many setups do raise ...
Topic: Vertical Knee Lever
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 2351	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 13 Jan 2024 3:33 am Subject: Vertical Knee Lever
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 2351	If you press both A+B pedals and keep em pressed, your heel should not need to lift more than maybe 1,5" to fully engage the vertical knee lever. If you need to lift your heel more then your vert ...
Topic: MSA Classic, 2nd string lower not low enough
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 15 Views: 1858	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 10 Jan 2024 3:17 pm Subject: MSA Classic, 2nd string lower not low enough
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 15 Views: 1858	The further away(hole location) the pull rod is from the return spring, the more likely it is to get issues with the raise finger moving at the end of the pull(lowering down to C#). Make sure your ...
Topic: MSA Sidekick - setting up the knee lever
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 1566	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 6 Jan 2024 2:02 pm Subject: MSA Sidekick - setting up the knee lever
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 1566	If you temporarely remove the spring for the knee lever then your 4th string E should drop to Eb Your C pedal (if adjusted correctly ) should then when pressed raise 4th string up to E before 5th s ...